Car Suddenly Won't Start

[Aleks]

Hi puma gurus! I have a Puma '98 1.4 Zetec-S LHD 208k km, which was hybridised to LPG by a previous owner.
The car ran almost perfect on Friday night, but the next morning it just won't start. First, there was a click-click sound with no cranking. After I stroke a starter with a hammer, the starter started to crank when at ignition, but the engine will not fire.
The battery voltage is approximately 14.6V and drops to 9.5-10V during cranking.

What I've checked/done:
All the fuses - are ok
Voltage on the middle pin of the coil pack connector - ok
Opened up a cambelt cover - the cam belt is there and tensioned.
Checked discharge at HT caps when off for cylinders 1 and 2 in relation to groung (1 cm gap) and it is there.
Checked connectors and earthing points under the bonnet, sprayed them with WD-40.
Swapped the same type relays in BJB and CJB.

What was changed/repaired before:
Battery and spark plugs - changed
Air and saloon filters - changed
MAF sensor and ICV - cleaned
Coolant temp sensor and sender - changed
Reverse light switch - changed
VSS - repaired
Oil pan, gasket and oil filter - changed
Radiator - changed
Radiator's fan resistor - repaired

Now a fuel rail input gets fuel pumped when the key is in pos. II and is pumping in a pulsatile manner when in position III.
I can hear the fuel pump is priming with its usual hummm sound.
The immobilizer behaves as usually (the led after clocks blinks every two seconds and is off when in pos. II).

Also I noticed about a month ago that the alternator was very very hot several times after short journeys 3 to 6 km and since then never again.

There were fail starts sometimes with the car and after several to a dozen attempts I managed to start it..but not this time.

So the question is what else should I suspect now? and as someone mentioned on this forum, will it ever end?

Thanks to all

 

[RICHARD MANSFIELD2]

Hi.
Have you put a lead on the plug earthed the plug and cranked to see if you are getting a spark at the plug itself?

 

[Aleks]

Hi.
Have you put a lead on the plug earthed the plug and cranked to see if you are getting a spark at the plug itself?

Hi there
Yes. I disconnected a spark plug wire from the spark plug no.1. Then I attached a wire with an alligator type clip crimped at one end to a disconnected ht lead. The opposite end of the wire was earthed. The gap between the clip and an ht lead was about 1 cm. When I started to crank I could see an electric discharge between the (earthed) alligator clip and the ht lead.

 

[Aleks]

After reading what I wrote above, I've decided to overhaul the alternator.
So took it off and disassembled.
Upon disassemble, apart from it was very dirty and brushes were whittled down, there were no visual signes of damage. So cleaned it and changed the brushes. It took me two days to install the alternator back (the trick with a rag hasn't worked) ...but that's another story.

The overhaul hasn't made any difference. The car still doesn't start.

Now I've switched my attention to the ignition cascade. Took off the ht leads to visually inspect them and measure resistance (discharge was there I wrote about it).
The readings were within specs for the Motorcraft 1f8 (1st lead - around 8kOhms, 2nd - 6k, 3rd - 4k, 4th - 2k).. but...
What I've noticed is that when I bend any of the wires the resistance is fluctuating within 0.5 to 1kOhm, decreasing when flat and increasing when fully bent.
I've already ordered new spark plug wires (Magnetti Marelli msq00084 as it doesn't make any sense to buy the original ones)... but I have 2 questions considering the above mentioned

1. Is it normal for the spark plug wire to slightly (within 1kOhm) change its resistance when it's straightened or bent? How that could affect ignition?

2. Does anyone know at what stage of the ignition process the alternator starts 'picking up' the battery? I mean, is the speed of cranking enough for the alnernator to start generating 12 Volts (charge the battery)?

Thanks

 

[John Woodward]

Hi there
Yes. I disconnected a spark plug wire from the spark plug no.1. Then I attached a wire with an alligator type clip crimped at one end to a disconnected ht lead. The opposite end of the wire was earthed. The gap between the clip and an ht lead was about 1 cm. When I started to crank I could see an electric discharge between the (earthed) alligator clip and the ht lead.

I think you need to check all 4 plugs for the spark. The coil pack is different to the old type coil.

I'm not sure if the early analogue cars had a OBD2 port, if it has, even a basic scanner would give you some idea where to start.

After reading what I wrote above, I've decided to overhaul the alternator.
So took it off and disassembled.
Upon disassemble, apart from it was very dirty and brushes were whittled down, there were no visual signes of damage. So cleaned it and changed the brushes. It took me two days to install the alternator back (the trick with a rag hasn't worked) ...but that's another story.

The overhaul hasn't made any difference. The car still doesn't start.

Now I've switched my attention to the ignition cascade. Took off the ht leads to visually inspect them and measure resistance (discharge was there I wrote about it).
The readings were within specs for the Motorcraft 1f8 (1st lead - around 8kOhms, 2nd - 6k, 3rd - 4k, 4th - 2k).. but...
What I've noticed is that when I bend any of the wires the resistance is fluctuating within 0.5 to 1kOhm, decreasing when flat and increasing when fully bent.
I've already ordered new spark plug wires (Magnetti Marelli msq00084 as it doesn't make any sense to buy the original ones)... but I have 2 questions considering the above mentioned

1. Is it normal for the spark plug wire to slightly (within 1kOhm) change its resistance when it's straightened or bent? How that could affect ignition?

2. Does anyone know at what stage of the ignition process the alternator starts 'picking up' the battery? I mean, is the speed of cranking enough for the alnernator to start generating 12 Volts (charge the battery)?

Thanks

1. I've no idea if the resistance could vary when moving the lead, but I suspect not. I would have purchased Magnetti Marelli leads, as should be decent quality. Also have you checked if you're getting a spark at each plug, this would prove if the coil pack is working for all 4 plugs.
2. Due to the high current drain of the starter motor and the low speed the engine is turning, I don't think the alternator would be generating any power.

 

[Aleks]

Ok. I've changed the HT leads and the problem remains. It doesn't start.
I've checked discharge at caps 3 & 4 and sparks are there.
The coilpack readings: primaries 0.33 Ohm, secondaries - 13.3 kOhm.
Therefore, everything is good with the ignition part.

Yes, the car has an obd interface. But I can't read from it at the moment. The car has stalled in a public yard where is no electricity, I need several days to find a notebook.

Now I switch my attention to the fuel system. A neighbor of mine has come up with the idea about that. He's somehow checked a Schrader valve while I was cranking the engine and has made a conclusion. He believes the Schrader valve doesn't get enough pressure from the rail.
Considering the car has been hybridised to LPG, the problem may be related to fuel/lpg injection.
I've got a wiring diagram of the LPG system (pictured below). According to the scheme, the fuel injectors (circled in red) are connected in sequence with lpg injectors. Therefore, if the lpg controller is malfunctioning, the fuel injectors won't work as well. But probably the lpg controller simply bypasses lpg injectors when in petrol mode or off. I'm gonna check that tomorrow. Also I'll check an inertia switch.
Can't figure out where to dig further

Any thoughts?
Thank you

 

[Aleks]

Hi all there!

I've finally managed to read from the ECU. The readings have only made things worse.
First of all, I should mention that 3 different laptops were used. As the focom was unresponsive, the forscan indeed established the connection...But ..it recognises my ecu as one from the focus zetec se 1.8 2000. So it should be noted that these values are valid for 1.8 engine.
Codes: U1262 - SCP Data Link Fault
Module: Hybrid Electronic Cluster

P0460 - Invalid fuel tank level message from instrument cluster.
Module: Powertrain Control Module
This DTC may be caused by :
Fuel sender circuit failure
Faulty or damaged instrument cluster module.

Run the insrument cluster diagnostics

P0113 - IAT Sensor Circuit High Input
Module: Powertrain Control Module Module

This DTC may be caused by :

Open Circuit
Signal shorted to VBATT or vref.vref.
Sensor Previously disconnected
Faulty Sensor
Faulty or damaged PCM.PCM.
Extreme low ambient temperature
Improper connection
Incorrect VREF.
SIGRTN open circuit

P0602 - PCM programming error

Module: Powertrain Control Module

--Possible Cause--
Damaged PCM.

P0174 - System Too Lean Bank 2
Module: Powertrain Control Modul

The PCM monitors the adaptive fuel table to ensure fuel control system components do not vary from their nominal values. The fuel control strategy within the PCM uses the adaptive fuel table to compensate for normal wear or aging of fuel control system components. The code is set when the PCM can no longer compensate for additional changes in the fuel system.

This DTC may be caused by :
Suspect Low fuel pressure.
Crankcase Ventilation System
Suspect air intake system leak.
Suspect engine vacuum leak.
Suspect HO2S21 circuit.
Suspect PCM.
A blocked fuel filter will restrict the flow of fuel to the pressure regulator. If the fuel supply to the fuel filter is O.K. the fuel filter may be blocked.

Obstructed or dirty fuel injector(s)
Suspect EVAP EVAP canister purge solenoid.
Leaking exhaust system.

P0443 - Evaporative Emission Vapour Management Fault
Module: Powertrain Control Module

This DTC may be caused by :
Open Circuit
Short to Ground
Short to VREF.

B1318 - Battery voltage Low
Module: Message Center

B1994 - Side Air Bag Circuit Open, Front Driver Side
Module: Electronic Crash Sensor

Refer to the workshop manual for further diagnosis and repair.

B1877 - Safetybelt Driver Retractor Circuit Failure

Module: Electronic Crash Sensor
Wiring Harness Open Circuit

B1318 - Battery voltage Low

This DTC may be caused by :
Check fuses.
Power supply to fuse
Discharged or faulty battery.
Check the condition of the battery.
Check the battery charging system.
Check the connector for damage or contamination.
Check the connectors and wiring harness for damage or contamination.
Check the wiring and the appropriate fuse.
High resistance in wiring

Additional Information
The ABS lamp should be illuminated.
The ESP lamp should be illuminated.
There will be an ESP malfunction warning displayed on the driver information text panel.

B1244 - Rear Windshield Wiper relay circuit failure
Module: Central timer module

B2256 - Heated windshield relay short to ground
Module: Central timer module

Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Gem module pin EN23 (C426; Blue)

B1428 - Safety belt lamp circuit failure
Module: Central timer module

===ABS DTC None===
Successfull DTC reading, no error codes found

Module: Anti-Lock Brake / Traction Control Module

===END===

So what do you people think about it? The car won't fire.
Thanks

 

[Aleks]

..in simple words..A bottom line question (in priority of error):
Can I check fuel pressure with a tyre pressure gauge?

Thanks

 

[Sjoerd]

That's a long list of errors. Usually i'd start with the most serious. In this case; battery voltage low. Do you have a spare battery around? Or a second vehicle you can hook some starter cables to? Hopefully it can keep the voltage stable during starting.
The other errors; did you clear them? Did all of them come back after clearing & your attempt at starting?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Most of the errors originate because of low voltage condition. Try to recharge the battery (or get a new one), clear all DTC's and try again. The DTC that pops up then will be the one that is valid i.e. is hurting you the most

 

[Aleks]

Yeah, I've put a battery on charge.
I couldn't clear the dtc codes because the forscan was in demo mode.

I'm a bit skeptical concerning the latest readings because at least some of them haven't been proved. I've measured the IAT sensor, its resistance is 15kOhms, a voltage drop - 3.75 Volts, so the input readings aren't high.
I've also checked the rear window heater relay (I only have rear) and it isn't shorted.
Checked the canister purge solenoid valve and it's opening. The rear wiper works.
Excluding all that have been done, the only three things are left to suspect: 1) thunder'd ECU 2) weak fuel pump 3) dead engine (due to prolonged consumption of a lean mixture of air/fuel).
But more and more I feel my car may become an another dead Puma.
Sad.. cause when I look at her, she makes me hypnotized (not so many cars have such attribute). I think it's the most beautiful car of the 90's.

 

[Aleks]

Hi all!

I've put today a fully charged battery and still nothing. The only difference is that the starter is now cranking faster. Yet another 'dtc error' has not been confirmed.

Checked compression in a fuel rail, although with a tyre pressure gauge, and it showed 3.7bar what makes me think that injectors aren't opening, thus building up pressure in the rail. But that's only my assumption.

Tomorrow I'm going to measure voltage at injectors (what'll be inaccurate without the oscilloscope). No.2 on my to-do list to check a crankshaft position sensor. No.3 to open a rocker cover to check what's going on there. I have a spare gasket, so will replace it.

Questions. Is it safe to crank the engine without a rocker cover? I know it won't fire, but just to see that camshafts are spinning (sounds silly).
What else should I pay attention to?

Thanks

 

[John Woodward]

Hi all!

I've put today a fully charged battery and still nothing. The only difference is that the starter is now cranking faster. Yet another 'dtc error' has not been confirmed.

Checked compression in a fuel rail, although with a tyre pressure gauge, and it showed 3.7bar what makes me think that injectors aren't opening, thus building up pressure in the rail. But that's only my assumption.

Tomorrow I'm going to measure voltage at injectors (what'll be inaccurate without the oscilloscope). No.2 on my to-do list to check a crankshaft position sensor. No.3 to open a rocker cover to check what's going on there. I have a spare gasket, so will replace it.

Questions. Is it safe to crank the engine without a rocker cover? I know it won't fire, but just to see that camshafts are spinning (sounds silly).
What else should I pay attention to?

Thanks

I think you should be Ok just turning the engine over with the cam cover removed, especially if it won't start, if it might I'd be inclined to disconnect the coil pack.

 

[Aleks]

Hi all!

Am I right that the camshafts are flooded with excessive oil??

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

No, they should be in oil. Clean the oil around sparkplugs and read out DTC's with fully charged battery

 

[Aleks]

No, they should be in oil. Clean the oil around sparkplugs and read out DTC's with fully charged battery

Thanks.
Should I apply additional sealant to a rocker cover gasket?
I can't read from the ecu, the focom vds-obd s/ware states 'the interface hasn't been found'. It's strange as I read codes half a year ago.

By the way, I've measured voltage at injectors today. It was fluctuating within the range 0.7-1.3 V during cranking. I haven't remembered whether it was in relation to ground or to supply,
Has anyone measured voltage at injectors?

Search continues....

 

[red]

Rocker cover gaskets are notorious for leaking, I'd be using a small amount of sealant just as a pre-caution. I think this is more of an issue when using non-original gaskets.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Thanks.
Should I apply additional sealant to a rocker cover gasket?
I can't read from the ecu, the focom vds-obd s/ware states 'the interface hasn't been found'. It's strange as I read codes half a year ago.

It would seem to me the OBD reader was not found by your computer.

By the way, I've measured voltage at injectors today. It was fluctuating within the range 0.7-1.3 V during cranking. I haven't remembered whether it was in relation to ground or to supply,
Has anyone measured voltage at injectors?

Search continues....

The supply voltage of injector should be the battery voltage (i.e. 13,5 or more V whit engine operating). However, at the very injector, if using osciloscope, you could read as much as 55 to 70 V of inductive kick voltage as PCM shorts the injector to the ground prior to firing it open. However that would not be visible at Digital multimeter (unless you have one with osciloscope function)

 

[Aleks]

It would seem to me the OBD reader was not found by your computer.


The supply voltage of injector should be the battery voltage (i.e. 13,5 or more V whit engine operating). However, at the very injector, if using osciloscope, you could read as much as 55 to 70 V of inductive kick voltage as PCM shorts the injector to the ground prior to firing it open. However that would not

The laptop sees hardware of the reader, even initiates pcm connection and in a moment interrupts it.

As for the measurement. I've been measuring using an old analog socialism era arrow multimeter. It's more reactive than the digital one.

Now I've decided to change the rocker cover gasket, four bushes.
I've also removed the intake manifold, a pcv, a throttle body to clean and change gaskets.

I hope I'll have done by the end of the week.

Thanks

 

[Sjoerd]

The laptop sees hardware of the reader, even initiates pcm connection and in a moment interrupts it.

As for the measurement. I've been measuring using an old analog socialism era arrow multimeter. It's more reactive than the digital one.

Now I've decided to change the rocker cover gasket, four bushes.
I've also removed the intake manifold, a pcv, a throttle body to clean and change gaskets.

I hope I'll have done by the end of the week.

Thanks

Most likely it then tried to do a PCM connection but was unable to and just posted RX Time outs. Is there any logging that you can make on your VCI?

As a job I am a VCI expert for an OEM so I can analyze some traces, if needed. Do you have any can-tracing tools available? Perhaps a 2nd VCI we can put in monitoring mode?