To include:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30387
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30386
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30345
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29931
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30289
Apologise in advance - very long post.
I purchased a set of GMAX Super Sport Suspension for my Puma back in February 2016 as a replacement for my old, tired and rusting original suspension that was close to failing the January MOT (but ended up as advisories).
So while I had a bit of spare cash and some urgent jobs that required doing, I ordered (and had fitted) the following parts:
>> Problem Solving Rear Beam Bushes
>> Rear Suspension Top Mounts & 2 New Circlips
>> Flo-Flex Front Wishbone (top & bottom) & anti-roll bar bushes
>> New Track Rod Ends and Tie Bars
>> New Anti-Roll Bar Links
>> 2 x CV Gaiters
>> Front Suspension Top Mounts
>> 2 x Spring Vibration Dampers (Ford OEM)
>> LUK 3 Piece Clutch
>> Clutch Pedal Master Cylinder
>> Long Hose from Clutch Pedal Master Cylinder to Reservoir
>> and the GMAX Suspension Kit.
When funds allowed I had all the above parts fitted (about a month later).
As soon as I had the car back, I immediately took it for a spin up the motorway (flat road) and then back down a well known twisty A road to test out the car and the new suspension.
tbh - I have never felt so scared in the my life - on the motorway the front end of the car was boucing around like a ping pong ball and on the twisty A road the car felt genuinely unsafe.
I took the car straight back to my mechanic and he checked the suspension but could not find anything noticeably wrong - so greased the front suspension - thinking (wrongly now) that the springs were grabbing.
So I stuck with it for a couple of months; took the car up to Performance Puma to have the cambelt changed and the car seemed to behave itself both there and back.
However, a couple of weeks later I came back down the motorway and up on braking from 40 to 10 mph on the slip road, the car seemed to rock backwards and forwards under braking.
So I thought enough is enough.
I started by going on the GMAX website and ringing the contact number, only to find that this number rang and rang with no answer; then I found that GMAX was owned by MotorSpeed, so I found their details out and contacted them - again no answer.
So I contacted PumaBuild which is where I purchased them from and spoke to Alan and asked what I can do about the "faulty suspension". He stated that I could not know that they were faulty but suggested that I take the car into them for a check. I said that I could not do that as they were 225 miles from me and it would not be viable. So he suggested that I get in contact with Mountney (who own GMAX) and ask them what to do.
During my conversation with Alan (PumaBuild) I stated that I had spoken to him in February before I purchased said suspension. He stated that he had not spoken to me before today and I said that it was he who had recommended the suspension as being a very good replacement for stock Puma suspension.
He stated that PumaBuild do not stock GMAX suspension (that my order from them had to be specially ordered from Mountney (which was a lie)); that he would not recommend GMAX as they had gone downhill over the last few years. So I said, but the Puma has a massive following and he stated that the Puma is a 15+ year old car, that the following that I stated isn't there and that they do not see many Pumas in PumaBuild these days - maybe 1 or 2 a year.
So I contacted Mountney and explained that the suspension seemed very bouncy; so they asked could I push down the front suspension; I explained that I could and quite a way down and I was told that it should be rock hard and that I shouldn't be able to push it down.
I also informed them of the bouncy rear end and the rocking back/forth under braking. They suggested that the suspension was faulty and that I should send it back to them.
They then refused to speak to me, as I was not the customer and that I should go back to PumaBuild.
Went back to PumaBuild. Alan informed me that I should take the car into my local mechanic to have the suspension removed and that I should send the complete units back to Mountney (this includes their suspension kit and the top mounts). PumaBuild would pay for the courier.
Between day 1 and day 23 of my car being sat in my mechanics garage on ramps the emails and telephone calls between Mountney / PumaBuild and myself were many, some were heated and some emails were used to get their attention (as it turns out Mountney don't like talking to their customers).
"One particular telephone call was between myself and Phil (PumaBuild) where Phil had been informed by Mountney as to where would we like my old suspension kit sent back to (me or PumaBuild) as they did not have the technical expertise to remove the top mounts off the rear suspension. You can imagine the thoughts that both myself and Phil had."
The short of it is:
>> Mountney received the suspension back and sent it away for testing. I thought (based on what Dan Kimpton (director of Mountney) stated that this was going to be an independent test. It turns out that it was done in house by Mountney;
>> Dan Kimpton - as a gesture of goodwill sent me a complete new set of supersport suspension so that I could get my car on the road;
>> Dan Kimpton sent the picture in the following post: http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30386 to me stating the damage done to one of the rear struts was down to my mechanic (of 15+ years) incorrectly fitting the rear strut;
>> The new set of SuperSport suspension that arrived to me was superbly packed; all the parts were bubble wrapped and the springs even had labels saying which ones are front and rear and there were no scratches on the suspension struts. The box was shrink wrapped and had fragile all over the box. The enclosed instructions even have a warning to take 20mm off the bump stops -- unlike the box that came from PumaBuild - that was none of the above.
PumaBuild sent the first order from their own stock. How do I know? Because Dan Kimpton told me that he had never heard of me prior to this complaint. Had PumaBuild ordered a kit from them for me in February, then the kit would have been made and sent directly from Mountney to me and thus they would have had my details on file;
>> Mountney had to send (apparently at extreme cost to them) the top mounts and top spring cups back to me as they did not request them (apparently they only requested the parts from the kit);
>> Multiple email questions to Mountney re: correct torque settings, etc. were ignored, as the settings that we had / mechanic had came from the Fiesta Haynes Manual and are correct. Mountney claims the damage done to the rear suspension has been caused by the mechanic tightening up the nuts too much;
>> Yesterday I received an email from Dan Kimpton and in that email was the test report for my old suspension and it stated the following:
Damper 1 - Front - No Fault Found;
Damper 2 - Front - Damper Leaking, No Return Pressure, Low Oil Due to Leak, No Resistance - Failed Unit;
Damper 3 - Rear - No Fault Found;
Damper 4 - Rear - DAMPER HAS GOOD RETURN PRESSURE AND RESISTANCE, THE LOWER CIRCLIP HAS BEEN TWISTED OUT OF ITS GROOVE CAUSING DAMAGE TO THE SEATING IN THE TOP MOUNTING THE CUSTOMER WAS ADVISED OF THIS WHEN THE MOUNTING PARTS WHERE SENT BACK TO HIM.
THIS ALLOWED THE DAMPER SHAFT COME THROUGH THE TOP MOUNT AND THE SPRING TOPCAP AND MOUNTING TO BECOME STUCK FURTHER DOWN THE SHAFT, STOPPING THE DAMPER FROM WORKING CORRECTLY.
All springs tested as ok and within tolerance.
When I questioned what would cause the lower circlip to twist out of the groove - the answer was overtightening during fitment.
If I have got this right - the retainer that sits inside the rear of the puma, would only tighten down onto the top of the strut and go no further - which is why the torque setting is only 25 lbft
I then asked "A “failed unit” on the front would suggest a problem in the production of this set. This failure caused the front end of the car to be exceptionally bouncy from day 1.
As this is a failure of your unit and not anything that we have done (Your 3 year warranty) then I would NOT expect to have to pay to have my suspension removed and refitted, especially after only 5 months. I expect Mountney / GMax to pay this fee."
Their reply - "As this is a fitment error which could have also caused the leaks in both dampers, the warranty is therefore invalidated and Mountney/GMax are not liable for any additional costs incurred. At no point were we even obliged to send a new kit FOC but as a gesture of good will, we did so.
We could also claim the numerous transportation costs when your mechanic failed to return the suspension kit correctly. We see no point in doing this.
As far as Mountney is concerned, we are not at fault for the situation that occurred and have done more than is necessary to try and resolve this.
Unfortunately, your issue is with other people, not us."
There is only one leaky damper - not two and there is no fitment error.
So, not only did I have to pay to have the original suspension fitted but I have also had to pay a further £175 to have the faulty suspension removed and refitted.
The new suspension was fitted in exactly the same way as the old suspension and yet the new suspension from Day 1 is rock solid on the front (and a little lower) and the rear suspension is also rock solid and theres no knocking (as per the previous suspension).
Go figure.
Any Thoughts By Members Would Be Appreciated Before I Take This Further.
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30387
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30386
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30345
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29931
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30289
Apologise in advance - very long post.
I purchased a set of GMAX Super Sport Suspension for my Puma back in February 2016 as a replacement for my old, tired and rusting original suspension that was close to failing the January MOT (but ended up as advisories).
So while I had a bit of spare cash and some urgent jobs that required doing, I ordered (and had fitted) the following parts:
>> Problem Solving Rear Beam Bushes
>> Rear Suspension Top Mounts & 2 New Circlips
>> Flo-Flex Front Wishbone (top & bottom) & anti-roll bar bushes
>> New Track Rod Ends and Tie Bars
>> New Anti-Roll Bar Links
>> 2 x CV Gaiters
>> Front Suspension Top Mounts
>> 2 x Spring Vibration Dampers (Ford OEM)
>> LUK 3 Piece Clutch
>> Clutch Pedal Master Cylinder
>> Long Hose from Clutch Pedal Master Cylinder to Reservoir
>> and the GMAX Suspension Kit.
When funds allowed I had all the above parts fitted (about a month later).
As soon as I had the car back, I immediately took it for a spin up the motorway (flat road) and then back down a well known twisty A road to test out the car and the new suspension.
tbh - I have never felt so scared in the my life - on the motorway the front end of the car was boucing around like a ping pong ball and on the twisty A road the car felt genuinely unsafe.
I took the car straight back to my mechanic and he checked the suspension but could not find anything noticeably wrong - so greased the front suspension - thinking (wrongly now) that the springs were grabbing.
So I stuck with it for a couple of months; took the car up to Performance Puma to have the cambelt changed and the car seemed to behave itself both there and back.
However, a couple of weeks later I came back down the motorway and up on braking from 40 to 10 mph on the slip road, the car seemed to rock backwards and forwards under braking.
So I thought enough is enough.
I started by going on the GMAX website and ringing the contact number, only to find that this number rang and rang with no answer; then I found that GMAX was owned by MotorSpeed, so I found their details out and contacted them - again no answer.
So I contacted PumaBuild which is where I purchased them from and spoke to Alan and asked what I can do about the "faulty suspension". He stated that I could not know that they were faulty but suggested that I take the car into them for a check. I said that I could not do that as they were 225 miles from me and it would not be viable. So he suggested that I get in contact with Mountney (who own GMAX) and ask them what to do.
During my conversation with Alan (PumaBuild) I stated that I had spoken to him in February before I purchased said suspension. He stated that he had not spoken to me before today and I said that it was he who had recommended the suspension as being a very good replacement for stock Puma suspension.
He stated that PumaBuild do not stock GMAX suspension (that my order from them had to be specially ordered from Mountney (which was a lie)); that he would not recommend GMAX as they had gone downhill over the last few years. So I said, but the Puma has a massive following and he stated that the Puma is a 15+ year old car, that the following that I stated isn't there and that they do not see many Pumas in PumaBuild these days - maybe 1 or 2 a year.
So I contacted Mountney and explained that the suspension seemed very bouncy; so they asked could I push down the front suspension; I explained that I could and quite a way down and I was told that it should be rock hard and that I shouldn't be able to push it down.
I also informed them of the bouncy rear end and the rocking back/forth under braking. They suggested that the suspension was faulty and that I should send it back to them.
They then refused to speak to me, as I was not the customer and that I should go back to PumaBuild.
Went back to PumaBuild. Alan informed me that I should take the car into my local mechanic to have the suspension removed and that I should send the complete units back to Mountney (this includes their suspension kit and the top mounts). PumaBuild would pay for the courier.
Between day 1 and day 23 of my car being sat in my mechanics garage on ramps the emails and telephone calls between Mountney / PumaBuild and myself were many, some were heated and some emails were used to get their attention (as it turns out Mountney don't like talking to their customers).
"One particular telephone call was between myself and Phil (PumaBuild) where Phil had been informed by Mountney as to where would we like my old suspension kit sent back to (me or PumaBuild) as they did not have the technical expertise to remove the top mounts off the rear suspension. You can imagine the thoughts that both myself and Phil had."
The short of it is:
>> Mountney received the suspension back and sent it away for testing. I thought (based on what Dan Kimpton (director of Mountney) stated that this was going to be an independent test. It turns out that it was done in house by Mountney;
>> Dan Kimpton - as a gesture of goodwill sent me a complete new set of supersport suspension so that I could get my car on the road;
>> Dan Kimpton sent the picture in the following post: http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30386 to me stating the damage done to one of the rear struts was down to my mechanic (of 15+ years) incorrectly fitting the rear strut;
>> The new set of SuperSport suspension that arrived to me was superbly packed; all the parts were bubble wrapped and the springs even had labels saying which ones are front and rear and there were no scratches on the suspension struts. The box was shrink wrapped and had fragile all over the box. The enclosed instructions even have a warning to take 20mm off the bump stops -- unlike the box that came from PumaBuild - that was none of the above.
PumaBuild sent the first order from their own stock. How do I know? Because Dan Kimpton told me that he had never heard of me prior to this complaint. Had PumaBuild ordered a kit from them for me in February, then the kit would have been made and sent directly from Mountney to me and thus they would have had my details on file;
>> Mountney had to send (apparently at extreme cost to them) the top mounts and top spring cups back to me as they did not request them (apparently they only requested the parts from the kit);
>> Multiple email questions to Mountney re: correct torque settings, etc. were ignored, as the settings that we had / mechanic had came from the Fiesta Haynes Manual and are correct. Mountney claims the damage done to the rear suspension has been caused by the mechanic tightening up the nuts too much;
>> Yesterday I received an email from Dan Kimpton and in that email was the test report for my old suspension and it stated the following:
Damper 1 - Front - No Fault Found;
Damper 2 - Front - Damper Leaking, No Return Pressure, Low Oil Due to Leak, No Resistance - Failed Unit;
Damper 3 - Rear - No Fault Found;
Damper 4 - Rear - DAMPER HAS GOOD RETURN PRESSURE AND RESISTANCE, THE LOWER CIRCLIP HAS BEEN TWISTED OUT OF ITS GROOVE CAUSING DAMAGE TO THE SEATING IN THE TOP MOUNTING THE CUSTOMER WAS ADVISED OF THIS WHEN THE MOUNTING PARTS WHERE SENT BACK TO HIM.
THIS ALLOWED THE DAMPER SHAFT COME THROUGH THE TOP MOUNT AND THE SPRING TOPCAP AND MOUNTING TO BECOME STUCK FURTHER DOWN THE SHAFT, STOPPING THE DAMPER FROM WORKING CORRECTLY.
All springs tested as ok and within tolerance.
When I questioned what would cause the lower circlip to twist out of the groove - the answer was overtightening during fitment.
If I have got this right - the retainer that sits inside the rear of the puma, would only tighten down onto the top of the strut and go no further - which is why the torque setting is only 25 lbft
I then asked "A “failed unit” on the front would suggest a problem in the production of this set. This failure caused the front end of the car to be exceptionally bouncy from day 1.
As this is a failure of your unit and not anything that we have done (Your 3 year warranty) then I would NOT expect to have to pay to have my suspension removed and refitted, especially after only 5 months. I expect Mountney / GMax to pay this fee."
Their reply - "As this is a fitment error which could have also caused the leaks in both dampers, the warranty is therefore invalidated and Mountney/GMax are not liable for any additional costs incurred. At no point were we even obliged to send a new kit FOC but as a gesture of good will, we did so.
We could also claim the numerous transportation costs when your mechanic failed to return the suspension kit correctly. We see no point in doing this.
As far as Mountney is concerned, we are not at fault for the situation that occurred and have done more than is necessary to try and resolve this.
Unfortunately, your issue is with other people, not us."
There is only one leaky damper - not two and there is no fitment error.
So, not only did I have to pay to have the original suspension fitted but I have also had to pay a further £175 to have the faulty suspension removed and refitted.
The new suspension was fitted in exactly the same way as the old suspension and yet the new suspension from Day 1 is rock solid on the front (and a little lower) and the rear suspension is also rock solid and theres no knocking (as per the previous suspension).
Go figure.
Any Thoughts By Members Would Be Appreciated Before I Take This Further.
