JASAPP

[alex']

Ok, so if you do a succesful swapp of an 1.6 ecoboost in a Puma,
it's one of the better swapp for this car !

a popular (maybe more than a duratec 2.0) and light engine (all aluminium, more light than an zetec E in cast ), and have a lot of part for upgrade (a lot more than an zetec 1.7 for sure :wink: )!!
and the 6 gears gearbox .... it's the cherry on the cake

I can't wait to see more on this project :wink: :grin: :grin:

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Ok, nothing to show for yet, but I have been doing some research. The first thing to be sorted out is the Vehicle Speed Sensor signal. As you know, the B6 gearbox is new, meant for modern canbus cars and it has no provision for VSS. It is not needed, as the ABS sensors are used for getting the signal about the speed of vehicle and that is then broadcast over CANBUS.
Obviosuly, puma uses no canbus (it uses K line diagnostic protocol) so I need somehow the information about the vehicle speed.
All the systems in cars measure distance the cars has travelled in terms of pulses they get from VSS (I am talking about the digital system, not cables from gearboxes).
Asian manufacturers all use 4000 pulses per mile system. Ford in this era used 8000 pulses per mile system. That means that for each travelled mile instrument cluster will receive 8000 pulses from VSS. These pulses are square peaks of voltage; either 5V or 12V. I am not yet 100% sure, but I think Ford VSS outputs 12V pulses.
Now, time for some math: puma uses 195/50R15 tyre. Circumference of that tyre is 1.81 m. A mile is 1609 m, so that gives 889 wheel revolutions per mile. Since in that time VSS will produce 8000 pulses, for one wheel revolution we should get 8.998 pulses.
And sure enough, this video proves it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmcsmmGCkI

So now I face a dilemma. I can get a hall sensor (denoted by 3 wires) or a VR sensor (2 wires) to look at my rear wheel hub's bolts. Puma uses 4 bolts per wheel, and for each turn I would get 4 pulses. I need 9, but get only 4, so miss out on 5. That means I would have to add the original signal by another 125% to get to 9.

Luckily, there are in existance some moduls enabling you to do just that.
Speedo corrector: https://www.jaycar.com.au/corrector-speedo-module/p/AA0376
Universal Speedometer Signal Interface: http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=-1/mode=prod/prd126.htm
Speed Signal Interface: https://shop.classicinstruments.com/sn74z

Needless to say, I went for the cheapest option :grin:

There is one more thing. This module should adapt itself to the signal it receives and transform it for the instrument cluster. So in theory I should be ok with using either VR or Hall sensor (Hall sensor outputs square signal, VR sine signal that needs processing to become square. VR uses only two wires, so simple in implementation but it is not like I will be doing this 1500 copies per day so a wire will add to some savings at end of a fiscal year....

Now turning attention to the PS pump. As I already mentioned, I will be using the Toyota MR2 PS pump. It is already home. After searching the net I found the shop manual for the MR2 and there is explanation of the signal needed. The integrated ECU of the PS pump expects the 4 pulses per sensor revolution square 5V signal.
This 4 pulses per sensor revolution is standard Asian signalling. Please,note: this is 4 pulses per SENSOR revolution, not tyre!
Again some math: MR2 uses tyres ins ize 185/55R15 (front) and 205/50R15 (rear). Circumference of that tyres is 1.813 m.
That gives as 887,15 wheel revolutions per mile.
The VSS would produce 4000 pulses over a mile so per wheel revolution that is 4.5 pulses. So, if I were to use the 4 wheel bolt system I am very close. If I don't modify the signal, I am 12.5% undersignalling. Since the PS ECU would switch the pump off at 100 kph, with this setup it would happen at 89 kph. I think I can live with that, plus I can always tweak the signal at later date shoudl it be needed.
All of you who have done the rear disc conversion know that there is plenty of space behind hubs. That got me thinking: I could make a bespoke trigger wheel with 9 teeth (nice, round 40 degrees between them) to get the correct signal for the speedo, and use another sensor on other hub for the PS pump signal.
Third option is to use the driveshaft and put on it a bespoke made trigger wheel similar to ABS rings. That would have to have lots of teeth and would need scaling down the signal significantly. Plus, I am not sure I would want to weld anything on driveshaft as I am affraid it might warp due to the heat stress?

So with that question to Barry and other people handy with welder I conclude this post. Again, you are all more than welcome to give me any inputs if you think my reckoning is wrong in any detail so far?

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Sinisa
I think there would be too much movement on the driveshaft to use a trigger wheel as the sensor gap has to be spot on. On my Westfield it drives off the inner flange of the driveshaft which uses alan cap heads to fasten the shaft to the diff and does not move up and down with the shaft. How about a sensor next to the front caliper reading the vent slots in the disc?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

No, no, I thought of the inner flange where the driveshaft enters the gearbox. Of course, the driveshaft would move around and that can not happen.
Hmmm, vent slots in the disc are interesting idea, never occured to me! Don't know if that would work, or not...
But my question was mainly about the prospect of welding anything to the driveshaft (flange)... Is that doable? And adviceable?

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Sinisa
The trigger wheels I've seen are usually quite light duty so to weld those to the flange of the driveshaft would be quite difficult but i'm sure you could epoxy them on but is there room on the inner flange because the flange is quite recessed down into the gearbox and there are strengthening webs around there (from memory)

 

[tuonokid]

Just had a thought, does the new box have a fixed shaft at the back of the engine as that would be a good place to mount a trigger as there is only rotary movement on that.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Hi Sinisa
The trigger wheels I've seen are usually quite light duty so to weld those to the flange of the driveshaft would be quite difficult but i'm sure you could epoxy them on but is there room on the inner flange because the flange is quite recessed down into the gearbox and there are strengthening webs around there (from memory)

That is actually not a bad idea! Glueing it in place. There is enough space, I checked. The only problem would be scaling down the signal as it would be 4-5 times bigger frequency, than needed. Ok, that is one option. Still think the best option is using the rear hubs, but alternative solution is always a bonus.

I might open up a gearbox and check if there is enough space on differential to take the tone ring from MTX75, but am very reluctant to the idea of drilling the housing so woud rather mount the sensor from outside...

 

[XAF]

Sinisa, you have blown my mind again!! How do you even know where to start with this stuff?!!

I’m in awe, and can’t wait to see the result!

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bQzkdK2ha0

1:40...
A bit from here, a bit from there.... :wink:

All is there on the net, you just have to search and study :!:

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

So, a smallish update. I am sorry that progress is very slow, but I am just so busy lately and by the time I get home it is pitch dark and cold and since I have no heating in my mancave the things are not progressing as I would like them to!

So I am now focusing mainly on research and planning...

Anyway, this is the setup I am going to use (hopefully) as my VSS replacement.

This is the camshaft position sensor from a Hyundai i30/i20. Nothing fancy about it, just happened to have access to the connector and pigtail for it, hence the choice. When you come down to it, all are the same, i.e. do the same thing. As said, all the sensors are doing the same thing, the only differences among them is the packaging. There are som other candidates if this one turns out to be unsuitable.This one is Hall type, what is denoted by 3 wires.

One wire is +, the other is ground and the third one is signal. It works both on 12V (as intended in Hyundai, most probably to be more resilient to distortions) and 5V. When sensor is in proximity of a ferrous metal it opens up the signal and sends the puls of 12V or 5V (depending on what is connected to).

There are two wire sensors which are VR (inductive) and they produce sinusoidal voltage that needs processing to be turned into voltage peaks needed by PCM, instrument cluster and PS pump. They need certain speed of rotation for the rings to be of use. The same type is used in ABS in puma and as you know it doesn't work below 5-6 kph. Hence I opted for Hall type.

I will have this tone ring laser cut from 4.5 - 5 mm thick steel plate (not stainless, it has to be magnetic)

It has 9 teeth as that is what my instrument cluster needs per wheel revolution to operate. The Toyota PS pump needs 4.5 pulses per wheel revolution so that signal would need scaling down by 50%. The idea is to have it installed to the rear hub. Might make additional 3 holes for attaching it to the hub by 3 bolts to secure it properly. There will some be needed some bracket for the sensor, but will cross that bridge when come to it.

The other option would be to use another ABS sensor at rear already existing tone rings (you can just make another opening for it on the other side of the hub) but that one has 44 teeth so would need some serious scaling down (dividing by factor of 4.89 for IC and by 9.78 for PS pump) and, as already explanined, wouldn't operate below 5-6 kph, but no need for machining the hub, fabricating the bracket etc...

So that's it for the moment. When there is some development, will post it

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Smallish update from JASAPP. As was preparing it for a weekend drive, discovered a leak from power steering servo system. Had a good look, and the pressure pipe corroded in front. Not the cooler, but the twisted section in front of A/C compressor.

That rubber which is suppsed to protect it was a reason for failure. It collected moisture and the pipe corroded through. So, had a real fun taking it out yesterday. Had to take the battery out and then only just could undo the pipe from steering rack.
Anyway, it is out. After washing, cleaning and drying...

It really is a testament to stupidity of a person who designed it. It is part of high pressure circuit and it must be altogether 2 meters long with two elastic sections. It could have been made 0.5 meters in length but someone thought this was cheaper option then to put PS switch next to the rack, behind gearbox (plenty of space for that). Instead, it runs along engine to the front to get the PS swithc next to A/C compressor switch on line and then goes all the way back to the rack. Really, really stupid solution!

Talking stupid: is there anything more prone to failures than the notorious HCV? The second one broke on me. I noticed some coolant was missing, and thought I smelled it too, but this was final proof:

Again the front section broke as the pipe is twisting it with the engine movements. I am so fed up with this idiotic solution that I will be making my bespoke HCV out of metal to prevent this kind of shit happening again. I will be using the solenoid part from the plastic HCV, but the housing and pipeing will be made out of aluminum or something similar. The solenoid will be bolted to it (as it is now) and that should work as intended, but hopefully no more these breakages.

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Sinisa
How are you going to repair it, with new pipes from Ford or go to a Hydraulic shop and have custom pipes made up? When I get the pipes off my scrapper Thunder I'm hoping I can get some made up in better materials at Pirtek.
Barry

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Hi Barry,

As interim solution I will buy another one, but will use this one as a template. The left pipe (which is broken) is only connection for the two hoses anyway. The other has to provide housing for the solenoid valve..

And if you were asking (most probably you were) about the power steering hose, I will get it repaired. As you know my plan is to get rid of it anyway later when I install the Toyota pump so this will be useless. And given the Toyotoa PS pump will be fixed to bodywork, no flexyble hoses will be needed so I will bend a copper hose and fix it to the bodywork.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Spent some time with JASAPP today. Had the servohose repaired. It is made as one piece unit by Ford, the shop made it in sections. That is good, as three parts will reuse when convert everything to the Toyota PS pump.

Anyway, the rotten part that burst was remade. Here it is in picture. Reused the section where the pressure switch goes in the system and which is the reason for such a lenghty hose.

The flexible parts were made new. The shop says they stopped using regular hydraulic hoses becuse they had some issues with some of the PS fluids so now they are using the Continental flexy hose which is OEM.

Also, the first section which bolts to the steering rack is next to them. Those are the parts I will reuse later.

And complete set. Since it is now a five peace design, install should be much easier.

Before install had all the pipes painted. Used brush and thick paint, no thinner at all to give it extra protection in the long run.

While the paint was curing, replaced the infamous HCV.

That is it at the moment. Still waiting for the paint to cure properly so haven't put the car together yet.

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Sinisa
Good to see the latest original part Ford HCV used, it should last at least 5 years.
Barry

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Barry, that was exactly the life I got out of FeBi unit. I swear they are all made at the same factory, just are branded and priced differently. But as I said, I will be making a alloy one which will put an end to the ticking sound of a timebomb in action that can be audible every time I am in the car....

 

[red]

The HCV is so stupid, literally failing across all the Fords..KAs..Fiestas.. surely there must be a better solution already?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

It speaks volumes that Mk1 and all subsequent models of focus had 'classic' solution. Classic means that there is no HCV, but coolant is instead circulating all the time through the cabin heater but the heater is closed it self (i.e. no air circulation). Puma uses different logic: no flap to close the air circulation through the heater, but closing of the coolant flow.
Almost all the other manufacturers use the 'classic' solution, so draw your own conclusions.... :roll:

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

So, after letting the paint cure for a week or so, finally repaired the car. TBH, spent most of the week searching for the spanner for the hidraulic hoses and couldn't find one. Only sets and didn't want to invest so much money into them as they won't be needed....
To make things worse, found at one store spanners a piece, and they had 17/19 mm combo, but not the 18 mm!

So bought a regular 18 mm spanner and sacrificed it....

Used a grinder on it and this is the result

The part that was leaking is replaced by a new one.

Also, the new flexy hoses just barely visible behind power steering pressure switch

They are detacheable and the PS line is now a multypiece design

The hose that runs below the engine


Started her up, added PS fluid, the pump right away quietened down. No leaks, working nicely.

Since the battery was detached let her idle until the fan started up, added some demineralised water in the system and went for a test drive. All working as it should, so gave her some long overdue wash and some claying as well...

What a car! :wub: :wub:

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Sinisa
Wouldn't a crows foot spanner have sorted it?
Barry