Need more power !

[Puma D]

Afternoon All !

This question has been asked a 1000 times on here perhaps....... I want more power for my track Puma, what is the general consensus in today's time of the best and most cost effective route for this ? Your thoughts people ?

 

[yippeekiay]

My thoughts (just a rough guess) as prices can vary HUGELY depending on many factors. Research, research, research.

Most Cost Effective & Least Cost Effective;-
Weight Reduction (including Yourself lol) - Free
Nitrous - "Reasonable" initial costs but could run into very high costs for refilling as won't last long for track use

And anywhere inbetween;-
Air Filter/Box/Feed etc - fairly cheap but minimal gain I'd have thought
Throttle Bodies - no idea how to or how much
Turbo - Depends on Parts used/availability & any alterations needed if applicable
Engine Swap - Depends on Engine & any alterations if applicable
FRP Inlet and Cams etc - good luck finding a cheap inlet
Engine rebuild - Pistons, Rods, Head etc etc etc

There is likely many, many more alternatives but I need to go to the crapper so am pushed (literally) for time & my mind is on more immediate pressing (literally again) concerns

No puns were intended, they just came out (not literally, yet, thank goodness)

 

[Waterboard]

Dude,

Where are you with your setup now??
Brakes, suspension, engine etc…
Always need to know the starting point

 

[Puma D]

Thanks both for the replies, The car is set-up brilliantly on all other aspects I am just looking to get power to around 180-200bhp. I did contemplate installing a Honda K20 Engine as the are pretty much bomb proof !

@Waterboard take a look at my project in the members rides. Thank you.

 

[Waterboard]

You wanna go carbs or injected? Force fed or air sucker?

 

[Puma D]

You wanna go carbs or injected? Force fed or air sucker?

The most cost effective bang for my buck !

 

[NeilR]

Could I suggest a reality check? You're looking to squeeze 180 to 200bhp from a car that's now over 21 years old at best that was designed to push out 160. While anything's possible if you throw money at it, wouldn't you be better if 200bhp is your goal, getting a Scubi or a Honda platform? The mods you would need on a Puma to reach that level would be more than the cost of another platform. So many cars now with Turbos as standard that simply chipping and fitting an intercooler places well over 300bhp in reach for the cost of cams and a basic porting job on a Normally Aspirated (NA) Puma. At that level, you'd need better brakes suspension, wheels, tyres, seats roll cage, etc. Even a standard 2000 Impreza sticks out 208 BHP and 0 to 60 in 6.3 secs. The only realistically available NA car - a Type R - will give you 197BHP out of the box for far less than you're looking for, if someone would stop laughing long enough to quote you for that output on a Puma. Harsh, but a fact of life. Its just not what Puma's are about.

 

[caprixpack]

Could I suggest a reality check? You're looking to squeeze 180 to 200bhp from a car that's now over 21 years old at best that was designed to push out 160. While anything's possible if you throw money at it, wouldn't you be better if 200bhp is your goal, getting a Scubi or a Honda platform? The mods you would need on a Puma to reach that level would be more than the cost of another platform. So many cars now with Turbos as standard that simply chipping and fitting an intercooler places well over 300bhp in reach for the cost of cams and a basic porting job on a Normally Aspirated (NA) Puma. At that level, you'd need better brakes suspension, wheels, tyres, seats roll cage, etc. Even a standard 2000 Impreza sticks out 208 BHP and 0 to 60 in 6.3 secs. The only realistically available NA car - a Type R - will give you 197BHP out of the box for far less than you're looking for, if someone would stop laughing long enough to quote you for that output on a Puma. Harsh, not a fact of life. Its just not what Puma's are about.

It's exactly what pumas are about. Type r civics are a dime a dozen, I have a mk2 focus st running 320bhp, its quick but nowhere near as fun as the puma. They're Cheap to buy, easy to modify brilliant handling out of the box. I'm chasing more power on my millennium, it's already running nos, larger throttle body, ported manifold, full frp exhaust system, I've got some fast road cams to go in when i do the timing belt.
Its a track car ffs, chill out.

 

[Waterboard]

There’s a question of class, style and personal tastes. Personally, I don’t like a thing about a Lesbaru, the civic route is ok but there’s a problem. Honda are mechanically and technically impeccable and that’s the problem. It’s soulless, bikes and cars, just soulless.

 

[Puma D]

Everyone will have there own opinions, I have had many powerful cars and I know what the Puma is about, it is my project car and If I want more power from it then so be it. Yes there are other cars out there that out of the box are quicker but this is not what this is about. Every aspect of the car within my budget has been upgraded, handling, braking, safety etc etc that will handle the power with no problem. I may or may not do any engine swap but it's an option that I may consider. Thanks for all your input.

 

[NeilR]

It's exactly what pumas are about. Type r civics are a dime a dozen, I have a mk2 focus st running 320bhp, its quick but nowhere near as fun as the puma. They're Cheap to buy, easy to modify brilliant handling out of the box. I'm chasing more power on my millennium, it's already running nos, larger throttle body, ported manifold, full frp exhaust system, I've got some fast road cams to go in when i do the timing belt.
Its a track car ffs, chill out.

 

[NeilR]

Everyone will have there own opinions, I have had many powerful cars and I know what the Puma is about, it is my project car and If I want more power from it then so be it. Yes there are other cars out there that out of the box are quicker but this is not what this is about. Every aspect of the car within my budget has been upgraded, handling, braking, safety etc etc that will handle the power with no problem. I may or may not do any engine swap but it's an option that I may consider. Thanks for all your input.

I'm guessing that like me, you love your Puma. I've had my Black since 2011 and sold a modded Porsche when a Puma driver who knew how to drive left me for dead around some twisty roads. I discovered why. It was torquey and light. My Puma became a lot more so when I stripped out the rear trim and seats and every ounce of weight, remapped a TAPE ECU did the FRP airbox mod, 421 manifold and sports cat and coilovers. I'll be gutted when it finally breaks, so no cams. You're expecting 200bhp. OK, its a track car. But its Fiesta Mk4 drive shafts won't take it that's why its is castrated in first gear to save them. You'll need a lot more than 7K of revs. That means Sigma steel forged rods, not the sintered ones. You'll never finish a hot lap in a car that fragile. Why spent £3K to be towed back to the pits then scrapped?

 

[st220kyle]

Without a doubt the way I would go is fitting the 1.6 eco boost from the fiesta ST180,
There's plenty of info out there from people that have already done it,
I reckon if you did it yourself you could do it for around £2k if you use the puma gearbox,
There are Even custom mounts and wiring kits for sale on eBay,
It will bolt up to the puma gearbox,
These engines are running around 230 hp after just a remap and I know a few that are running near 400hp on a stock engine.

 

[st220kyle]

Without a doubt the way I would go is fitting the 1.6 eco boost from the fiesta ST180,
There's plenty of info out there from people that have already done it,
I reckon if you did it yourself you could do it for around £2k if you use the puma gearbox,
There are Even custom mounts and wiring kits for sale on eBay,
It will bolt up to the puma gearbox,
These engines are running around 230 hp after just a remap and I know a few that are running near 400hp on a stock engine.

 

[Puma D]

Thank you guys for your input - Much appreciated, for those that haven't seen the car in the other post. a few snaps.

 

[WildHog75]

I'm guessing that like me, you love your Puma. I've had my Black since 2011 and sold a modded Porsche when a Puma driver who knew how to drive left me for dead around some twisty roads. I discovered why. It was torquey and light. My Puma became a lot more so when I stripped out the rear trim and seats and every ounce of weight, remapped a TAPE ECU did the FRP airbox mod, 421 manifold and sports cat and coilovers. I'll be gutted when it finally breaks, so no cams. You're expecting 200bhp. OK, its a track car. But its Fiesta Mk4 drive shafts won't take it that's why its is castrated in first gear to save them. You'll need a lot more than 7K of revs. That means Sigma steel forged rods, not the sintered ones. You'll never finish a hot lap in a car that fragile. Why spent £3K to be towed back to the pits then scrapped?

@NeilR What power output you've got with this set up? Throttle body is some custom job or mod to Mondeo one?

 

[Pumaracer]

Guys,

If you keep your eyes open look out for Colin Tester's racing Puma. I believe it was a Puma from the PUMA SERIES but he has put a 2 litre Duratec + throttle bodies in it giving out circa 200bhp on a Quaife box etc. It goes really well and handles well. he is bases around Brands but races it for customers, all around the country.

 

[PhilLew]

If you want to go further down the route of 'adding lightness' check out ScubaSteve's thread 'Project Silver' he went to extreme lenghts in the weight reduction department, can't remeber what weight he got it down to but it's in there somewhere.

 

[NeilR]

@NeilR What power output you've got with this set up? Throttle body is some custom job or mod to Mondeo one?

Last time on the dyno, I was getting just over 130BHP at the wheels but a lot more torque (around 155f/lb) with the enlarged throttle body and full S/S exhaust and Sports Cat (JP Exhausts). The car is a 2001 so it had a DIVE ECU then which was a bit limiting. I later swapped out the DIVE for a TAPE with FRP map and it is definitely faster, even without cams - and pops nicely. I had my throttle body bored out, polished with a new butterfly and that alone was a radical improvement. Much more torque and better throttle response. MPG unchanged. Mine was done by a guy on ebay. I can't find him any more - mine was done in 2017-2018. He used to do it on an exchange basis or deposit. I did find these guys... Headtune - Performance Cylinder Head Gasflowing, Porting & Polishing

 

[Waterboard]

Guys,

If you keep your eyes open look out for Colin Tester's racing Puma. I believe it was a Puma from the PUMA SERIES but he has put a 2 litre Duratec + throttle bodies in it giving out circa 200bhp on a Quaife box etc. It goes really well and handles well. he is bases around Brands but races it for customers, all around the country.

200hp, you could fart more power than that.,, for that kind of install cost.
Might as well fit an Audi RS3 motor in it, with a tweak there’s a reliable 600hp.