Rear disc conversion and brakes upgrade

ProjectPuma

Help Support ProjectPuma:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Wild E. Coyote

Well-known member
Puma Supporter
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
2,677
Location
Croatia
Hi, everyone!

I will post my rear disc conversion on 2001 puma. I am using focus rear hubs and ATE 253 mm discs. The reason? A challenge, and simply I would have needed to buy new shoes and have drums mashined/replaced anyway so I opted for rear disc conversion. I intend to keep the full usability of a car that means working ABS.
As you probably know, focus Mk1 uses different system with magnetic rings and different sensors. The only way of keeping functional ABS is to adapt the rear hubs to accomodate the existing sensors AND tone rings.
On Pumapeople there is a guide with a rough sketch that IS WRONG! I will stress it once again, the info there is WRONG (http://www.pumapeople.com/wiki/index.php?title=Possible_Ford_Brake_Upgrades" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
It says that you need to mashine your hubs down to 65,6 mm and that is to much! I found it the hard way! I did it like it is stated BEFORE my newly purchased rings arrived (the old ones are on the car since I am using it) only to find out I over did it!
I bought MAPCO rings which are the only ones you can find on eBay and they are 66,2 mm diameter! So I needed to make up for lost material and had the hubs chrome plated to desired 66,3 mm to create an overlap of 0,1 mm



I stand to be corrected; maybe the original ford items are smaller in diameter and the info on puma people is OK, but if you are using MAPCO rings or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABS-SENSORRING-FORD-ESCORT-V-VI-VII-FIESTA-KA-ORION-PUMA-MAZDA-121-III-HINTEN-/160709965591?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item256b0f7717" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; then you need to do it as it is pictured!

Next you need to mashine the rings. Their interior diameter is 44,1 mm and it is to small for focus hubs; they won't seat properly. You have to enlarge that opening to 48 mm.





A comparison shots of focus and puma tone rings together







The chroming process on one hub wasn't Ok and it ended in diameter of 66,2 mm. That is just about to big and the ring would move a bit. Since the original focus rings were glued in place, I opted to do the same here and used loctite 638 for the job (probably overdid it a bit with usage :oops: )



The hub carriers were cleaned and primed before I had them mashined



I used liquid metal to blank of the existing thread holes. The puma sensors are much bigger and need different mounting holes.

Now, I used some pasticine to establish the EXISTING gap between sensors and tone rings. On puma it is 0,6 mm. Used the same technique and measured the same gap for focus sensor and ring. The focus sensor is longer by 2 mm so I have to recess the seating for puma sensor by same amount and the gap would be as needed (hopefully :( )



After that, the usual job of renewal: painting everything before fitment…



Hubs were not primed before so had to prime them first



The carriers…



Two coats of matt black and one of clearcoat later…



And completed and ready for fitment!



What needed to be done: enlarging the hole for fitment and making a new one for the retaining screw



That is it for now! When I grab some time at my friends 2post electric jack the conversion will be completed and the theory behind my ABS functionality tested :shock:
 
Hi I've done pretty much the same as you but have you checked whether the puma ABS sensors will fit through the hole in the end of the axle, especially if you are using axle spacers. The end of the sensor and the angle of the cable can clash with the hole through the end of the axle or the edge of the spacer or maybe it's because I've used the existing holes on the Focus carriers?
Barry
 
I have spacers (12,5 mm) and pray it will be ok :cool: . If not, some grinding is in order, or, since the track is going to be wider anyway may ditch them altogether

Is your ABS functional?
 
I don't know yet as I'm still building. I used the original sensor holes through the hub carriers but increased the hole size and at the same time moved it nearer to the centre of the hub (as the sensor rings are smaller). Then I rebuilt it on the car and found that because of the shape of the sensor backs and the angle that the cables came off they would only fit on in a certain way through the framework/spacers at the end of the axle. This meant that the sensor plug fixing screws lined up with the stub axle so I can't re-drill them. So I've used aluminium brckets off the stub axle bolts to hold the ABS sensors in place. I did also have to machine about 2 mm thickness of the back of the styb axle in the shape of the ABS sensor to make sure the sensor came through the stub axle far enough (same as you did) I did look at the existing sensor gap on the drums and thought that it was less than 1mm so I set the sensor gaps on mine at 0.6mm (that's from the top of the ridges to the sensor face).
If it doesn't work I'll just buy some new rear sensors as they could have been damaged when I removed them even though they weren't too hard to get out.
Barry
 
tuonokid said:
I did look at the existing sensor gap on the drums and thought that it was less than 1mm so I set the sensor gaps on mine at 0.6mm (that's from the top of the ridges to the sensor face).
Barry

Ah, OK, I misunderstood the gap: thought pumapeople info was reffering to the gap between sensor and the ring! That gap should be about 2,5 - 3 mm!

Just had a good look today. You're right, I have to move the M6 holes nearer to the stub axle and it will be ok with spacers. So have to remachine the back of the hub plate and it will be OK.
 
Be careful as I'm not sure whether the stub axle is an interference fit into the caliper carrier and if you drill too near or on the join line you might ruin the integrity of the joint. I hope thats a typo as well as the fixing screws are M4 or M5 I think.
Barry
 
Nope, it is M6 100%. Know as had to by the cutter for it (don't know the name for the tool that is used to make a thread).

Regarding the other worry, it is OK. Nothing to worry about, I am careful, I even enlarged 12 to 15 mm for the sensors excentric exactly for the same reason; not to enter stub axle area...
 
You mean the tap. I could have sworn that the bolts holding in the Puma sensors only had an 8mm spanner size head, which would have meant M4 or M5 threads. It is a long time since I took them out, though.
Good man stopping away from the stub axle plus it would be a bugger to drill as well.
Barry
 
tuonokid said:
You mean the tap.

Barry

Ah, what a lingo! That is, to my knowledge, the third UNRELATED whatsoever meaning of the word tap!

Tap is the thing water runs from or out of.

You tap somebody when (s)he has done something good.

And you tap a thread? :shock:
 
Ah, stumped at few hurdles. The brake lines were to short! (rectified it)
Now, the ABS sensors. I can't use spacers because the twist in line on the right rear wheel is in place. I understand the escort ABS sensors are the ones to use as they don't have that twist in cable?
So, that birngs me to the question: would this sensors be OK? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Escort-MK7-Hatch-ACP-Rear-ABS-Wheel-Speed-Sensor-Brake-Replacement-New-/290990230055?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AFord%7CModel%3AEscort%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+VII&hash=item43c05e8a27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can see that they do have small twist on one, and a bigger one another wheel. Has anyone used ACE parts sensors? Are they any good?
I mean, these are probably the ATE ones http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X24.0751-1134.3&_nkw=24.0751-1134.3&_sacat=0&_from=R40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and they have no twist, the wire goes straight out, but the price is prohibitive, I'm affraid?
Any info is welcome
 
I was looking at those the other night as well and it seems the only straight ones are the ones over £100. If you do go for a set of those I would ask the seller for an actual picture though as they just seem to use generic photos and even though the pictures show straight they might be angled like the puma ones. The other thing you can try is like me and cut off the fixings so you can rotate the sensors and then use brackets off the stub axle bolts to push the sensors into place (I think you only have to cut the RHS).
Barry
 
All done! I am very happy to confirm that ABS is functional. I had to let the spacers for the time being let go. Didn't want to butcher the existing sensors so left it without spacers. I only had 12,5 mm anyway, and the rear disc hubs are roughly the same in width so…
So here you go: I mashined 2 mms and with that gap the ABS sensors work normally!
 
That's good news. I will let you know when mine's finished if it works and then you can mod your sensors to suit and go back with the spacers if you want.
Barry
 
I have just had a good look. I don't see the optical difference. With the drums I had 12,5 mm spacers at the back. And now, I'd say it is about the same. Won't bother for the time being with another sensors or any chemistry in that direction. Just happy that car brakes so hard now! Ok, my drum brake shoes were gone, so that may contribute to it a bit, but overall the felling is better. Or is it just in my head since I am happy that ABS is functional as before?
I'll never know; the improvement is the only thing that matters, I guess :wink:

Will take same photos and post them when weather improves a bit or go to a friend's garage with two post jack
 
Sorry, here are the photos with discs at the back and NO spacers. I think it is just about right without them..

TD5aq3J.jpg


and from the rear

OiIZXOd.jpg


Again from the front, slightly up

7APlSdb.jpg
 
Hi Wild E
I wasn't pestering you for photos of your car I just bumped this back up to the top as another member was asking for info on this subject and I told him that this post was a good place to start. Your car does look nice, though. I have managed to fit 10mm spacers on mine now as the 20mm ones were too wide and the tyres would have fouled the top mudflap mounts.
Barry
 
Oh, I see. Anyway, did it differently second time, will post it up possibly tomorrow. This method is easier as it requires less machining and is easier to setup later!
 
That should be good, i'm sure there will be quite a few people wanting to fit discs and keep their ABS.
Cheers
Barry
 

Latest posts

Back
Top