Wheel Arch Liners

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rigsby

New member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
67
Has anyone come up with a sensible alternative or modification to the Puma wheel arch liners? As we all know the standard ones seem to be made out of some sort of carpet and hold water and dirt like a sponge, creating an ideal environment for your wheel arches to rust away (as well as your brake pipes, etc). If people are going to the trouble and expense of replacing the arches, would it not also be sensible at the same time to look at removing/replacing/modifying what must be the biggest cause of them rotting in the first place?
 
TGPlayer1 said:
I have removed all of mine. Problem solved, cost zero.
I am very tempted to do that, I have definitely considered it but I was wondering do you have any significant problems with stone chip damage or noise under the arches? And other downsides you have found?
 
Wild E. Coyote said:
Those carpet liners are one of the best inventions car industry has made. They were to durable so they switched to plastic crap ones later
I couldn't disagree more. Of all the cars I've come across with bubbly arches, they have all had mud and crap stuck behind the liners just rotting it away. The plastic ones are slightly less evil as they at least stay dry, the carpet takes ages to dry out.


In terms of extra noise, I can't say because I have no interior, the gearbox rests on the strut brace and a noisy exhaust, so it hasn't made any difference to me, but I'm sure there would be some more noise coming through on a standard car, and you will get the occasional ping of a stone hitting the tub. Also at the front there's just a big hole so you get a bit more crap in your engine bay than if you keep the liners.
 
YOG said:
The arches rust from the inside, the liners do not cause this problem.
So it rusts from the inside of the joint where the outer body is folded over and joins with the inner wheel arch - that would make some sense. I don't suppose it's possible to get to that joint from the inside, never tried looking from within the boot behind the boot liner but would guess it's in some sort of enclosed void between inner and outer shells?

Do you not think the wheel arch liners have any impact at all?

TGPlayer1 said:
I couldn't disagree more. Of all the cars I've come across with bubbly arches, they have all had mud and crap stuck behind the liners just rotting it away. The plastic ones are slightly less evil as they at least stay dry, the carpet takes ages to dry out.
I must admit, this was my thoughts too, but I can understand that it might actually be a combination of the carpet liners and a poorly designed joint that seems to hold or attract/trap moisture internally (and maybe externally too) somehow.

Anyone else with a view as to what the answer might be to reduce the chance of the arches rusting again so quickly after repair?
 
Pop over to PumaPeople and see my thread showing the rear wheel arches behind the rear trim panels:
http://www.pumapeople.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
rigsby said:
Has anyone come up with a sensible alternative or modification to the Puma wheel arch liners? As we all know the standard ones seem to be made out of some sort of carpet and hold water and dirt like a sponge
The 'carpet' type serve a useful purpose and can be fixed without even taking the wheels off, if you want.

Spray them with the water based Thompsons Water Seal using a £1 hand garden sprayer and have a piece of cardboard around to avoid spraying yourself in the eyes when you spray upwards under the arch. Repeat a couple of times for each arch liner over a few days and the job is done.

Thompsons being water based will go, obviously, where water will also go and will form a water repellent, yet breathable, deep penetrating coating. You'll know when you've sprayed the liner enough because the spray will bounce off. Did all mine a couple of years back and they're still fine and water (and mud) bounces off , but I'll probably do them again this year anyway.

This stuff is usually used on brickwork, house walls, etc but someone at Fords should have figured this solution years ago. I think if it hadn't been for this fix then I'd would have removed my liners as well, as it just doesn't make sense to have water sodden bits of carpets in those areas.

rigsby said:
If people are going to the trouble and expense of replacing the arches, would it not also be sensible at the same time to look at removing/replacing/modifying what must be the biggest cause of them rotting in the first place?
Wrong culprit, I reckon. Otherwise the front arches which also have arch liners would also instantly rust....but they don't.

The real reason Puma rear arches rust so readily is twofold. Firstly, the design of the rear arch itself, which has one near vertical surface and one curved and form an extremely acute angle where they join. This isn't a problem really, but gave rise to the next part which is - spray shadow. * The wax type stuff that Fords sprayed into this area simply didn't reach the most vital part of the rear arch, which is where they join and for an inch or so up and it is this area that the rust is initiated by condensation inside the car. I've looked a three Pumas now and all had the same spray shadow fault in that area. It would have taken 30 seconds to angle that sprayer at 90* to get right into that 'crease', but for some reason it never happened. The front arches are more curved and the join angle less acute and don't seem to be any more prone to rusting than on any other car.

The various solutions for fixing/preventing/sorting the rear arches and rust in general are pretty straight-forward (although tedious) and I can run you though them sometime, if anyone is interested.


* 'spray shadow' is like the prehistoric cave paintings in France - put hand on wall, take mouthful of paint and spray the wall. Take hand away and the blank area on the wall where your hand was is the 'spray shadow' area.
 
YOG said:
Pop over to PumaPeople and see my thread showing the rear wheel arches behind the rear trim panels:
http://www.pumapeople.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would love to see that YOG, but my virus checker (as well as the Google recommendations) all block that site as dangerous (I presume it may have been hacked at some point and may try to download malicious code). Is there any chance you could post the gist of it on here (cut and paste) for us all please?
 
Frank said:
Spray them with the water based Thompsons Water Seal...
That sounds a great idea. Just looking through their range, I presume it was the Thompson’s WaterSeal Clear Multi-Surface Waterproofer that you used. Will definitely look into that. Anyone else with experience of this?

Frank said:
The various solutions for fixing/preventing/sorting the rear arches and rust in general are pretty straight-forward (although tedious) and I can run you though them sometime, if anyone is interested.
That sounds like it might be information/techniques worth knowing about, if you have time to explain. Maybe start with brief summary (to save your time) and then if we need further explanation, we can ask?
 
Frank said:
The various solutions for fixing/preventing/sorting the rear arches and rust in general are pretty straight-forward (although tedious) and I can run you though them sometime, if anyone is interested.
I'm also interested in a more briefly explaination! Sound really interesting :)
 
Having replaced both quarters in full on my Puma, I totally agree with YOG. The rust on Puma's has nothing to do with the liners. Water is channeled over the arch and down into the sill INSIDE the car which is why you often see the bubbles starting 5-10 mm above the arch line.

Fords being Ford I can absolutely see why people think it's the liners, but by some miracle the don't rot there.
 
As I've stated on here before use one of the Dinitrol cavity wax products.It sprays so thin in will run between spotwelded panels so easily that it will seep through a seam preventing moisture .I've got an '89 Sierra and a '96 Ka with no structural rust.Done both the Pumas and they are looking good so far.Also done a few classics with similar results.
 
rigsby said:
YOG said:
Pop over to PumaPeople and see my thread showing the rear wheel arches behind the rear trim panels:
http://www.pumapeople.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I would love to see that YOG, but my virus checker (as well as the Google recommendations) all block that site as dangerous (I presume it may have been hacked at some point and may try to download malicious code). Is there any chance you could post the gist of it on here (cut and paste) for us all please?

Shouldn't be anything wrong with the PumaPeople website, many on here are also on there. In fact, Ian G, a member here (breaks and sells Puma parts), own's the website.
 
YOG said:
Shouldn't be anything wrong with the PumaPeople website, many on here are also on there. In fact, Ian G, a member here (breaks and sells Puma parts), own's the website.
I just tried again and AVAST blocks it completely. Also there are loads of reports on Google about people having the same problems and the rating is that the "site is unsafe". I don't know why but that is the situation. Reading the chat around the internet, this isn't new either there are reports going back to 2011/12/13 about problems on there. I was going to mention it on pumapeople Facebook page but it doesn't look like much has been posted since 2012 - so probably won't get looked at (maybe IanG will see this). Never mind, we will have to do without the benefit of seeing your piece on rear arches/rear trim panels :-(
 
gingerdave said:
As I've stated on here before use one of the Dinitrol cavity wax products...
This product sounds like a sound idea. And if you have managed to get it to the problem areas, then there is hope.

The best advice seems to be to remove your liners and deep clean and Thompson's Water Seal while the repairs are being done, and then when the new arches are on, thoroughly Dinitrol the cavities inside the arches?
 
I've put Puma People through a few of the corporate solutions I use at work and it's coming up clean.

I'd be happy going there.
 
red said:
I've put Puma People through a few of the corporate solutions I use at work and it's coming up clean. I'd be happy going there.
It seems to be an AVAST issue, it believes it is a harmful site. I have reported it to AVAST for them to look into unblocking it. I will let you know how it goes...
 

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