Puma replacement..harder than you think.

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andrewjeffs

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Sep 23, 2014
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If you had to replace your puma with a more modern car, with similar performance..what would it be?
I bought mine 3 years ago in almost perfect condition for £2000 with 29k on the clock.

Unfortunatly.the change from the city to the country has taken its toll on the bodywork,although the engine is still perfect.

I stiill think for what I paid.it would have been impossible to find a better drivers car..the way the car handles from the steering down to the gearshift are all perfectly weighted making the car a joy to drive,as well as more than adequate performance with the strong engine.

If you look in the classifieds.you will have to spend a lot more than 2 grand to find a more modern car with similar performance/ability/cost to run.

The only car I can find is the Suzuki Swift,being a very similar package..just the dead steering and average engine stops me.

Anyone got any ideas?

If rust wasn't taking hold,i would just get the bodywork done,but its really just false economy on a car with known rot problems.
 
tuonokid said:
[post]359141[/post] ST150 Fezzer?????

not as nice to drive, bigger, heavier, high seat position and crap turning circle - but the engine has alot of potential if you are into that kind of thing

agree with the original poster its hard to find another car quite like the Puma that is simply a joy to drive and does not cost the earth
 
Had both the ST150 and Zetec S Fezzers. The Zetec S was much the nicer car. Needless to say I still prefer driving my Puma 1.7 rather than my Polo GTI 1.8 TSI.
 
This is a very interesting subject and also one which is incredibly tough. The simple answer, is there isn't anything out there which is on par with the Puma as a direct replacement.

Thinking about things logically, you have to compromise with certain aspects of the car as they get more modern. Performance comes at the expense of pricing, creature comforts come at the expense of weight and drivability is hampered by European emissions targets.

What does the Puma have over modern equivalents?

• Thorttle controlled by a cable and not electronically, I.e not fly by wire.
• A extremely revving and forgiving engine, no turbo nonsense.
• Great steering feedback and none of the extra light and lack of feedback steering racks you get now.
• Nibble handling, the Puma suspension system just works. The chassis, spring stiffness and damper movement just work on the Puma.

So a few options;

• Fiesta ST150 - a great little car, by no means anything special. It has light steering, it's underpowered and the handling is ruined by the garstly 17inch wheels.
However, you can transform them into something a bit better at the expense of money and then you don't fall into the budget section. Drop the Fiesta 30mm on eibach springs, change the 17 inch wheels for 15's and up the power to 185bhp and it' starts to become fun - go out in a MR200 spec car and you'll have a massive grin on your face from the noise.

• Fiesta Zetec S - again, a great little car. But it has nothing on the Puma and you wounld be selling getting one over the ST, unless you wanted the diesel.

• Mini Cooper S - now these modern mini are fantastic little cars, but good luck getting one in budget. The mini's are fast, nibble and great fun.

• Renault Clio Sports - I need not go here, just asking for reliability issues and money pits.....

Now, the only car I've been fortunate to have pleasure of driving and gives me the same sort of buzz and feeling as a Puma does is the newer Fiesta ST180. It ticks every box and you can do so much with it. Again the only issue is your not going to get them for £2,000 or under for a good 10 years.

You mention the Suzuki Swift, I've not been out in one, so I can't comment on how they drive. But they are used as Nurburgring hire cars, so they must be halfway there as a base car? They also do a 4wd version too......
 
I'd agree, for the money, nothing to actually match it (so roll up your sleeves and sort it out :grin: ) but if I had to go elsewhere then for me I'd consider an alfa 147, bit of a firm ride but nice car to drive and it got the benefit of good little diesel, if you like that sort of thing.

If dismissing that, how about this... the Sportka or enjoy a bit of fresh air and go two seater with the Streetka? You can pick them both up really cheap and they are heavily underrated, especially the Streetka (hairdresser comments etc).... I'll admit I actually laughed when my missus wanted one, then I drove it... was quite shocked to find it basically is an open top Puma driving wise.

The engine not so sweet as the 1.7 admittedly and a bit down on power but for under £600 you can get the SWR 120 kit which brings it on a par, plus you get that wind in your hair bonus, it's great fun to drive with the roof down... though I advise ear muffs to block out the builders' whistles, I found it quite distressing when I drove it :lol:
 
probally will be the swift..it really is amazing that years on,
we have actually gone backwards in how a car should feel/handle.
Even the new swiftsport cant match the pumas performance figures 14 years on!..ridiculous.

And as mentioned,they use the swifts as ring hire cars.
The only car I have driven with a package spot on like the 1.7 without playing, was the DC2 integra...
The 106gti ran it close..but it really was like a roller skate,and you had to be brave when pushing on with that short wheelbase.

Renault sport clios/meganes are at more reliable than you think.
My megane R26 has never gone wrong in anyway, after nearly 10 years.
I have 2 mates with highly tuned clios..again no real problems mechanically...one of them is turbo`d with 240hp.

up to a point renaultsports were built in a bespoke factory in Dieppe,with far better build standards..not the case anymore though.

Renaultsport tend to use tried and tested old tech..the engine in the clio dates back to the Renault fuego!!..as well as the ancient torsion beam rear suspension..but they make it work..megansport 265/275 is still the best in class even in the days of 300hp hyper hatches.
 
I think Aaron is right.. The New ST is the most fun since the puma..

In fact the new Fiesta in general is a super all round car which ever one you buy..

It's a such a shame the 1.7 was such a tiny limited run of engines, it's made the parts that are left very expensive too.. :?
 
ElDude at Allison Automotive said:
[post]359172[/post] I think Aaron is right.. The New ST is the most fun since the puma..

In fact the new Fiesta in general is a super all round car which ever one you buy..

It's a such a shame the 1.7 was such a tiny limited run of engines, it's made the parts that are left very expensive too.. :?
Seems bizarre they never put the 1.7 in anything other than the puma..why not the fiesta?,instead of using the old nail 1.6.
I assume as you say,being fetled by yahaha probally made the engine to expensive.
Ford have never had a better gearshift either...probally the most positive feel of any manual car I have driven.
 
Apparently Ford only did a deal with Yamaha for 100,000 units of the 1.7 which is very small.. the engine was originally conceived for a different project which was then shelved.. Ford had already done the deal with Yamaha for the new 1.7VCT so they had to find a platform for the new sporty engine. .. and so the sporty coupe was created from the already tried and tested fiesta platform. .

The fact that the engine came first is the why the Puma was such a sporty success

The other engine variants 1.4 and then later 1.6 was due to the fact there just weren't enough 1.7 units out there to forfill production line demands

:cool:
 
Posted 17 April 2007 - 01:14 PM

Alright, girls & guys - will try to add something not too confusing (I hope...).
I am an early retired Ford Engineer, one of the numerous 'fathers' of our cats; having been working in the Cologne PVT (Plant Vehicle Team) as technical Purchase Representative for Scorpio, Puma, and Fiesta / Fusion.
The birth of the Puma (SE146) was caused by a contract with Yamaha for the 1.7l engine, originally planned for another project which was ceased. After that Ford had to decide to either swallow the penalty for a broken contract or to use the engines (80 per day).

Consequently Ford looked for a cheap way to construct a vehicle being compatible to the character of that engine.
After production start in September 1997, Ford (completely surprised) recognised the market demand for that car - thanks a lot to Ford's Marketing Department - but had not enough engines to satisfy the market.
So they decided to make use of the ready-to-build-in 1.4l Fiesta engine (which led to the nasty nickname 'secretary's Ferrari'; the 1.25l was considered as being too weak. The 1.4l engine was replaced by the 1.6l one which was built in parallel to the 1.7l till the official production stop before plant shutdown 2001.

Towards the end of the vehicle's lifetime I received numerous phone calls per day from suppliers complaining about breaking tools asking me for money to repair them - already quite rightly stated as 'soft tools' in this thread.
Main reason for ceasing production was the re-configuration of the Cologne plant to build the new Fiesta / Fusion (not Focus which is built in Saarlouis / Valencia); some units (one of which is mine) were built by hand through to the end of 2001.

Some bullett points:
- production plant: Cologne only
- production start : September 1997
- production stop: July 2001
- total volume: appr. 133,000 units (including ST160 / FRP / Racing Puma)
- my first Puma: 'Spanish Red', registered October 6th 1997 (great fun driving through the city in an unknown car!)
- my current Puma: 'Racing Blue', registered June 6th 2002

This should be enough for now ...
 
Great extra info rick

I'm a die hard ford fan and wouldn't own anything else yet if I had to it would be the Megane turbo as they handle brilliantly and have a great engine. My mates had four or five and gave them death from day one and commutes an hour each way to work and has never had an issue with any of them

Iv had a streetka and there so underpowered I actually gave it away as I hated it that much!

If I had to buy another cheap car it would be an mx5 the suzukis do handle well but there so nasty inside

Can you afford to get the bodywork done and future proof the puma you have?
 
Despite not being coupes, my current Fiesta ST and old Clio 182 are probably the most worthy replacements I've come across so far. Both fun in their own ways - I love the 'over engined' feel of the 182, and the Fiesta is just so nimble and adjustable.
 
I've got a mk6 st150 and I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks it wasn't set up well as standard. Trying to sell sell sell.

What about a Suzuki Ignis sport? 1.5l engine and they seem pretty pokey and fun.
 
ArtfulHussy said:
[post]359273[/post] What about a Suzuki Ignis sport? 1.5l engine and they seem pretty pokey and fun.
Looks like a Postman Pat van.
 
Andrew raises a good point, what exactly do you replace the Puma with? I mean, not everyone wants to run a 20 year old car, let alone a 25+ year one. Fair play to the TR6 guys, etc. that do, but not everyone is like that.

Trouble is, the Puma does hit all the right spots, including how it looks both inside and out. As I think I've mentioned here before, I only bought my Puma by chance. I had budgeted for 3 or 4 grand and wanted a decent 'youngish' motor. Meantime, because I was fed up with borrowing my mate's Astra Automatic (for most drivers I would recommend automatics) after my previous car went to car heaven, so I decided to get a cheap runabout until something came along. Didn't care what, just had to be reliable and green...and somehow I ended up with the Puma, which will be 20 years old in 9 months time.

3½ years later, I'm still driving 'the runabout' and have no intention of getting rid until forced to do so. Just how silly is that? Well, you all drive Pumas, so you know it's not actually silly at all.

I've been following this thread closely, as sometime I'll have to get things 'back on track', but with what? Must say, I've been a bit disappointed with what's been offered so far. It's not that the cars are pig ugly, but they would be flatliners to me walking up to one in a carpark. For example, very quick search -

https://www.gumtree.com/p/suzuki/suzuki-swift-1.6-sport-09/1208199114
https://www.gumtree.com/p/ford/ford-ka-1.6-sportka-/1205247396

Seriously, I don't care what their engines and handling are like, I ain't going to rush out to own one of those, any time soon. Like at a dance, you go straight for the pretty one, not her mate.

To be honest, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I ended up with a 30 year old Puma. All I know is that is not what I intended, but if a car hits all the right points with you, what are you to do?

Hopefully this thread this come up with more choices, in due course. :)
 
I'd be seriously looking at a Civic EP3 Type R as a possible replacement. For a couple of grand it will have 100k on the clock but if you look out for full service history you should have a bullet proof car that can do all the Puma can do.
 
A Civic EP3 isn't really all that much more modern though is it, didn't they finish in 2005?
 
Civic type R EP3 seems to be a fun car, but it isn't a looker. just looks like almost every other car on the road.

It's really hard to think of a car wich is newer than a puma that will give you the same kind of driving pleasure and also look special, without costing loads of money. Only things i can think of are build about the same time the puma was build. Things like an MX-5 1.8, MX-3 1.8 v6, mr2, mg-f, etc. Lightweight, good looking sporty cars wich seem to handle well. But newer cars tend to be dull to drive, average looking, heavy, or just to expencive.
 

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