1.7 Down on power

Hello all,

Having a bit of a mare with the g/f 1.7 millie edition puma.

It is really down on power, and you have to work the car pretty hard most of the time to make any decent progress. Strangely it's not ALL the time, it will go through a phase where it seems fairly normal, but 90% of the time it feels like the handbrake is on.

It has a cone filter/induction kit on and you can really hear it sucking LOADS of air in, even when you only on part throttle. It def. didn't used to do this. It is especially noticeable if you try and pull out at a junction quickly (ie, 3000 odd rpm and lift the clutch fast). The car really bogs down like someone has the handbrake on full. It then slowly picks up, but it always feels like it is holding back. It's the same on the motorway, doing 70mph is quite hard work and means you need to put your foot down a lot more than usual to maintain a steady speed. Again, you can hear the induction kit sucking in lots of air like you are full down on the gas when you are only say 1/4 throttle.

Now, (and this might be totally coincidental) but she had the cambelt changed by a friend mechanic..... yes I did warn her it was a specialist job. but she was assured that he had done them before. I don't drive the car that often, but it seemed fine after we picked it up and it only started playing up about a week later. Is it possible that the timing is off?

I'm not 100% sure, so I have been through and replaced the following so far but doesn't seem to have made any difference

- new ht leads (bosch) and coilpack (off of ebay, not a genuine ford one, but it said it came with a lifetime guarantee) - no difference
- new spark plugs. Reset ecu by d/connecting battery for an hour. The car seemed MUCH better for the first few miles. Gave it some stick after it had warmed up and it really flew like it's old self....... 10 miles later, back to bogging down and feeling like the handbrake is on again.
- lambda/o2 sensor (2nd hand) - no difference.

I tried the maf off of another puma - Again, was ok for a few miles, but then went back.

Anything else worth trying? I'm pretty much at a total loss right now as to what else it could be. Also worth mentioning perhaps..... when the car is cold, it doesn't seem to exibit this problem as much. It seems much "perkier" but I always drive it gently until it is up to temp.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Mike

I have this exact problem, but much less frequently - probably every few days or so - and have replaced all the same things - coilpack, ht leads, MAF, etc. Had a full service in August 2011 so the plugs, oil etc are good. Will be following this thread with interest.

Interestingly, I find that she usually runs better the second time during the day you turn the ignition on. i.e. From cold it will feel perky (though of course you can't take advantage of this until she's up to temperature), then she will feel sluggish and depressed and wheezy, you drive around for a bit, pull over/park up, turn off the engine, get out of the car and go do whatever it was you left the house for, come back, start the engine again - hey presto, all is good again for a while. Also sharp braking seems to restore order temporarily (my brakes aren't binding - had this checked also).

When the car is sluggish, I also find my steering gets heavy.

So I'm thinking it might be fuel related - crap in the tank, or fuel filter needs changing, or the pump is on its way out. The other thing I'm thinking is the catalytic converter might be on its way out; perhaps the baffle is moving about resulting in good days and bad days or somehow connected to braking / stopping. Or it might be wiring - the Lambdas are connected to the same part of the Powertrain Control Module as the Power Steering Pressure Switch, which might explain my heavy steering during sluggish episodes.

I'm no mechanic, so I nearly put myself in your shoes and think what I'd do. You checked the MAF which I thought it could be a possibility.... You say it feels like the handbrake is on.... Fancy trying to see if the brakes are locking on? Tried a diagnostic for fault codes? Taken it to a garage that's not 'a friends'? Clogged fuel lines?

Hello Mr Scotsman - hope you're well! Are you back now or just dropping by to see how we're all doing? I seem to remember you had to go away for a while with work?

mkc2bad said:

lambda/o2 sensor (2nd hand) - no difference.

Click to expand...

I haven't replaced my O2 sensors yet - they were next on the list. Can you be sure the second hand O2 sensor you put on wasn't also knackered? I will report back if anything improves with new lambdas.

Also just had a thought - how's your rocker cover gasket? When you changed the plugs was there any oil round there - that can cause performance problems.

I would think if you have just had the cam belt done it is by far the most likely root of the problem.There are lots of references here and elsewhere referring to how tricky it can be for the inexperienced to time this engine after a cam belt change. Maybe he either just set it up wrong, or the belt has slipped a tooth shortly after?.

Did he replace the tensioner as wel as the cam belt?

Thanks for all the speedy replies everyone!

Rob - Indeed the 2nd hand o2 sensor could be knackered aswell, but it doesn't seem any worse or better with this one in. I wanted to try one from another car, but unfortunatly my friend's puma is a slightly later model with 2 o2 sensors. This one has just the one.

I checked the brakes and they don't seem to be sticking at all. The handbrake disengages and applies as expected.

The fuel pipes being clogged is a possibility as it sounds like it is drawing in loads of air but not enough fuel. I'm going to replace the fuel filter as it's only a few £. I also read somewhere that it could be the fuel pump/tank being clogged, but as I understand it, to drop it is not an easy job, or you can get it to by cutting in from the rear bench?

The rocker cover gasket was weeping quite badly, especially into spark plug hole 1, although this wasn't causing any issues at the time - This was replaced when I had the cambelt, tensioner and water pump changed. It's now stopped leaking into the spark plug holes, but is now leaking a little bit out of the back right hand corner on the outside of the rocker cover. I think I'm going to buy a new gasket and sealent and do it myself.

Such an annoying problem, but I'm slowly convinicing myself that it is the timing that is probably the issue. Is this easy for a proper garage to check. i know it's not cheap to get it re timed, but is it easy to diagnoise?

Mike

The first thing to do is ,try cleaning the injectors , they are probably clogged and that's why it runs better when it's cold. This is because on the cold start cycle, the injectors are pulsed from the ecu on a different warm up cycle, to enrichen the mixture. now that it's warmed up the clogged injectors aren't letting enough fuel in and it's running too lean. Hence the loss of power

Are you a pro, Doh? You are ridiculously knowledgeable about engines!

replacing parts with guesswork can be a slippery slope to a never ending nightmare, especially if you start fitting used or none oem parts... I'd get it diagnosed properly!...

You may just be adding more problems if your not careful...

i remember i used this approach on my fiesta a few years back and i ended up replacing a part with a faulty part...even tho it was new stock from ford ..lol took me some fair time and money to get to the bottom of it all....

:grin:

if you havent done the fuel filter you mite as well its cheap as chips and easy to do, if i was you i would do some of the small cheap things first that need doing anyway,before spending out on garage charging diagnostics.

On the point of mis timed zetec engines / slipped cam belt is there a simple way to diagnose this i.e establishing no 1 at tdc with plug out and using a wire coathanger for example and then checking the slots in the cams are lined up? or something similar i.e a simple anyone can do it diagnosis with few tools method?

It would make a great How To :idea:

There are potentially dozens and dozens of mistimed zetec engines out there I would guess

Yes Rob,I am a former development engineer for electronic fuel injection. I have 30+years modifying and building lots of engines for the rally and racing world and lots of Rolling Road testing.
Unless you've had years of experience working within the industry, it would be unlikely for the majority of Puma owners to fix the problems themselves.
they are at risk of going to great expense purchasing and replacing loads of unnecessary parts,without curing the problem( the usual main dealer approach).
I have in the past been used to diagnose problems for specialists and have been an approved repairer for many classic car owners clubs.
By the way, I had lot's of the problems with poor running problems on my 1.7 and it's now sorted & running perfectly. All of which I diagnosed and fixed myself.:grin:

evilrob said:

Hello Mr Scotsman - hope you're well! Are you back now or just dropping by to see how we're all doing? I seem to remember you had to go away for a while with work?

Click to expand...

Hey, stopping by really. Off to afghan at the start of march.
Hope you're doing well.

DOH can I adopt you please?

^ I second this. Can we all come round to yours, DOH? :lol:

Quick update. I tried a different set of HT leads and I think *fingers crossed* she is back to her former self.
The bosch ones just didn't snap/click onto the coil pack like on my friend's car - You just seemed to push the connectors on, but never sure if it is securely on or not......... so I bought another set of leads from a car spares place. Clipped on lovely and all seems much better. I tested the resistance of all the bosch leads and they all are reporting normal values back. Strange.

Have only driven it about 20 miles, but definietly seems much improved. The drone from the induction kit is gone, and now you can only hear it when you are revving it much harder (as it should be!) Hope this has sorted it, I'll report back in a few days

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Mike