Vct problem, cuts injection at 3.5/4K rpm

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ro0kie

New member
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
13
Hi there
I bought a 1.7 vct couple months ago, it’s not in mint condition on the exterior, but in terms of engine looks almost like new....but I came across a small problem and even my mechanic is trying to figure out was going wrong.
About 2weeks after buying the car e decided to do oil change, found out that the “recommended” was 5w30...after the oil exchange, I started to feel the car sluggish and struggling. Had no idea what oil previous owner used, so I took out the 5w30 and used 10w40, I’ve noticed the car was almost back to normal, was so sluggish, got new spark plugs and it looked like problem was solved.
Unfortunately when it reaches 3.5k(vct kicks in) it struggles to reach 4K....after 5k it’s like vct finally kicks in.
Got new speed sensor cuz the needle was wobbling from 0-60.
Tried out the MAF, unplugged and the engine was stuttering, cleaned and put it back in place.
Checked the lambda, unplugged, was working just fine, tried to take it for a spin and it seemed it was running out of gas, plugged it back.
My doubt is the O2 sensor....I unplugged and no lag in rev, everything was working perfectly, until it started struggling again around when vct kicks in, took sensor out and it was black, gonna get a new one and install.
My question and hopefully someone can explain exactly what’s wrong...could it be the solenoid? Or something else?

Also I’m trying to convert my puma into a FRP, as far as I know it’s gonna be the only one in Portugal, anyone knows where I can get the body kit, brakes and all that material, specially I want to boost up the engine but I want to make it right way, where can I get forged pistons(kit)?

Thank you for your patience
 
You haven't mentioned retraining the ECM, look on this board for the full procedure. Worth a try.
Sweeping dials could be a battery problem, have that checked too.
 
Start with fault code reader , as it's possible that your cam timing is out or the cam sensor is faulty and from what you describe with regard to the lambda sensor that may or maynot need replacing at this stage. It is not uncommon for them to look black and yet be working perfectly fine.
So at this stage you are about to replace an expensive part potentially unnecessarily.

I would get your "Mechanic" to test the ignition leads and coil pack , that's assuming he has the knowledge & equipment on how to do that test.

Alternatively start with a new set of ignition leads, as they don't last longer than 10 years as a rule.
 
It’s just me and my mechanic that’s working on the puma, I just understand the basics of how an engine works, and it’s the first puma my mechanic is working, it’s a project between us...but we are narrow it down where the vct problem is.
Yesterday got another problem....temp gauge was getting really out, I’ve stopped the car and turned it off, went to check if it could be coolant. Level was at Max like always, then I notice the large hose from the engine to the radiator and it was swallow, and I barely drive the car, hose was still warming, was on my way to the mechanic shop, I was around 1k away and since the engine itself was hot, I drove slowly(20kph), suddenly I hear a pop and something whistling, dam hose burst right in front of the shop, replaced que hose, checked the water pump, was still the original, got a new one, new thermostat, everything back in place...turned on engine, let it warm up until fan kicks in, and it did little over half gauge(65/70%), problem is it kept rising and hose started swallowing again until it literally exploded, my guess, new water pump, more pressure....I was feeling the hose getting warm until the radiator, but the other end where the water comes out, I wasn’t feeling anything, couldn’t even tell if the water was going through.....could it be clogged radiator and since the water doesn’t circulate, builds up pressure until it bursts? Cuz immediately after it burst the temp gauge went back to normal temps(40/45%).

About the diagnosis, it showed up 2 codes, one was P0500, the other one can’t remember....but my mechanic checked several things, and there was one he couldn’t understand why it was happening, the open and closed loop.
He would start the car and it would show open loop, just by rev until 2k, it would suddenly close loop and show INC/Fault.
Gonna try those methods and see if it vct works normally.

Thank you and I’ll keep it updating my progress
 
Hi
You state that you have now replaced the water pump and thermostat.
I would recommend that you now do the following:

1) Carefully remove the 2 hoses that go to the heater matrix from the Heater Control valve and flush the matrix through with a water mains pressurised Garden hose in both directions. The reason is that the core in the Heater matrix is smaller than the radiator and is more susceptible to blockage.

2) Remove the hose from the thermostat housing that has a plastic restrictor inside it, squeeze the outside of the hose to identify which of the 2 hoses it is.

Now with it removed twist the hose so it is pointing upwards so that you can see down inside the hose and look for any evidence of wire bristles.

If you see any pull them through using long nose pliers. They can be from the heater matrix core and if they are present can restrict your coolant flow!

3) The 1.7 is difficult to bleed, refer to the "How to " section of the forum and also type in "bleeding the coolant system " in the search box

e.g. https://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33585&p=377565&hilit=bleeding+coolant#p377565
 
Simonavis said:
I agree with DOH. Coil pack and leads, it’s struggling under high load.

Coil packs are often unnecessarily changed by many, due to them not having the knowledge to test and diagnose them properly.

The Puma Coil Pack have been known to last well in excess of 180k miles. It is for that reason I didn't recommend the coilpack , but to change the HT leads.
FYI there are Youtube videos on how to test a coil pack that you may find informative.

The Po500 code is the speed sensor and will not be the cause of your engine power problems and was to do with your faulty speed sensor, that you have replaced. You should now delete that P0500code.

Try and find out what the other code was as that maybe relevant
 
Update....just removed the thermostat to see if I bought a faulty one, so far so good, no pressure in the radiator hose and I’m feeling water going through and getting hot....gauge is at middle M and nothing bursted

About the ignition leads, we just noticed today that one of them is wrong, I have two marked with “1” then 2 and 4 and one of those “1” is way longer than necessary, could the vct malfunction cuz of the length is not the correct one?
 
One of the first things I would do, is put the correct 5w30 oil in. There's a reason Ford recommend it for the Puma, especially the 1.7 VCT engine.
 
Great news....like I said in previous post, I removed the thermostat to see if the radiator was clogged, worked perfectly, max temp it went was middle of “A” then it started going down....
But what comes next is really surprising, my mechanic took it for a spin to see if everything was ok, then he comes to me and tells me “put it in 2nd gear, let it slide a little bit then hit the gas”. My first thought was “what’s the problem this time?”
Honestly I have no idea if it was something I did, or the simple fact that I took out the thermostat, but the vct now it’s working, didn’t even felt like it was the same car, 3.5k and rev went up flying, no lags, no struggling, just in 3rd gear I feel I little bit of struggle going from 3.5k to 4K, after that rev flying again.
For now I’ll drive without the thermostat cuz soon I’ll be leaving Portugal and already told my mechanic I want to rebuild/restore the entire car and make it an FRP.
Still kinda worried about that ignition lead being longer, obviously previous owner didn’t bought full set of ignition leads.
Tomorrow I’m gonna take out the coolant to place new one and check if there’s any codes showing up.

I thank you all for your help and I’ll keep updating my FRP in the making :grin:
 
Two thoughts:

First, mismatched ignition leads can definitely affect performance, especially in a small engine. I would absolutely make a priority of putting a correct set in there. Its normally a good idea to replace wires and plugs at the same time but not really necessary if the plugs aren't very old.

Second, Is it possible that in the process of removing the T-stat, you might have corrected the real problem? Maybe something was unplugged or a vacuum line was disconnected, something like that?
 
DOH said:
Simonavis said:
I agree with DOH. Coil pack and leads, it’s struggling under high load.

Coil packs are often unnecessarily changed by many, due to them not having the knowledge to test and diagnose them properly.

The Puma Coil Pack have been known to last well in excess of 180k miles. It is for that reason I didn't recommend the coilpack , but to change the HT leads.
FYI there are Youtube videos on how to test a coil pack that you may find informative.

The Po500 code is the speed sensor and will not be the cause of your problems .

Try and find out what the other code was as that maybe relevant

Oops that told me!! :oops:
 
Alternately, I would say that coil packs are often tested inadequately because they can lose conductance when hot due to use and hot engine bay temperatures. Then by the time you get it bench tested its cooled to ambient or near ambient temperature and gained that conductance back again.

BUT

I agree that's probably not the first thing to look at. Fix your wires, put the correct oil in it, and figure out what wrong with your coolant system. Its tough to diagnose actual problems when you have multiple self-induced problems masking indications.
Does this car have an oil cooler?
 
No oil cooler....at least that I know of it, regarding the oil, I found out that 5w30, 10w30 and 10w40 are all recommended, besides I have no idea what oil the previous owner used, all I know is that after putting the 10w40 the car is developing better in terms of speed and revs, with the 5w30 he would kinda stall at 3.5k, was really hard to go more than that, I had to change gear or else it would just “grid” in those revs, after the 10w40 most of the times I feel “stalling” but it keeps going until 4K, after that goes all the way with no effort, like I said previously, There’s a longer and definitely wrong ignition lead, I’m starting to think either is that, or maybe the solenoid could be dirty and not opening freely until the oil pressure forces it to open or it could be the timing isnt right.
 
Ford spent a lot of money with Yamaha, developing the 1.7 engine, and recommend SAE 5W-30 for this engine. You've been advised more than once to use this specification, why do you assume you know better than Ford?
You came on here asking for advice, why ignore it?
For your further information, Ford do not recommend using the other viscosities for oil change and running the engine on, but only for topping up, if the correct oil is unavailable.
 

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1st-I said I just know the basics of how an engine works, I never said or assumed I know better than Ford.
2nd-I’m just telling what I’m doing doing in the car and the results that come out of it.
3rd-like I said before, I have no clue what oil the previous owner used, in my hands I used Ford Performance 5w30, I always follow the specs when it’s possible, I tried the 10w40 and the cars is running better than before and the outside temps here in Madeira never drops to 0...lowest u get in winter is 10.
With 5w30 the engine keeps “grinding” at 3.5k unless I change gears, with 10w40 it struggles a little bit but no “grinding”. And I searched too make sure if the engine could take 10w40 before changing the oil, who knows, maybe the previous owner was cheap and used 10w40 cuz its quite a bit cheaper than 5w30.
And I am following the advices here, it’s my first puma and got big plans for it, obviously people on this forum have a lot more experience with pumas than me.
 
It sounds like some of your ideas are correct. Cars from this time period are great for learning on because they have just enough modern design features to help you learn about new cars but are still simple enough that you can actually work on them without expensive tuning software.
The first thing to do is always try to restore the things you know are wrong so that you can identify the harder to find problems without them being camouflaged. Using a heavier oil to mask problems is just a band aid, not a cure, right?
It might be a good idea to do a good oil system cleaning using Sea-foam or a similar product. I don't know how hard it is to access the hydraulic solenoids for the VCT but if you can clean those directly, and bench test them, that would be a good idea.
You also haven't ruled out fuel system issues...A good fuel system cleaning might also be a good idea as well as fresh fuel filter.
Its always a good idea to start your journey with any used car by doing a complete tuneup - All the filters, fluids, belts, and ignition system components should be freshened up to put you on a known starting line.
 
I am in totally agreement with Yog's post above , however that is for a new engine where the bore and crank bearing clearances are tighter(smaller) than a high mileage engine. So assuming the engine now has a good few miles on it and potentially burns oil. with no visible external leaks and the fact that he is living in a hotter climate than the UK; a 5w40 oil would be good to use.

The 5 is the cold viscosity so matches the 5w30 . the 40 is the viscosity when hot , so being of a thicker viscosity in theory will burn less oil on a high mileage engine.

Agreed 10w40 is incorrect for the VCT on the 1.7 and should not be used as the main viscosity of the oil.

If you plug into a diagnostic reader and the cam timing is out, then it will display a code.

Even the cheap Autel held reader for £15 of ebay will show this.

If you still have the oil you drained out of the engine, you could pour it through a funnel with a strainer gauze and add some engine flush and when hot gently rev up to 3.5k a few times and see if it frees off the VCT , then remove and replace the oil filter and fill with fresh 5w30 or 5w40 oil.
 
Update
I’ll start with bad news first, central locking module isn’t working, checked the fuses, all good, fob key also working, even replaced the battery. But I can open manually, so it’s not so bad, since I have to fix this, I’ll gonna change the central locking from infrared that I have to radio frequency.
Weirdly and I don’t think it’s related with said module, vct now it’s working almost perfectly, on hill I can still feel just a little bit of grinding at 4K, but it keeps increasing the rpm, but when I push it to around 6k sometimes I hear something rattling and then stops.
Plugged in the diagnostic and not even a single code, but when I went to “live data” everything was good except the system 1-CL-fault....did some search it was supposed to show OL(open loop), I know it’s related with the fuel going to the engine.
Also, don’t know if affects the engine performance, I found out where the noise of “air leaking” was coming, from the vacuum tube that connects to the cervo, behind the brake pump, and connects to the engine, there’s a plastic thing in the middle of the tube, maybe it’s getting false air from there, either way gonna replace it soon.
 

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