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Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:34 pm
by acer
Started fine last night, went to move it today and you can hear fuel pump engaging but nothing on the key. It won't turn over and when the key is in the third start position the needles don't run round the dials?

Don't think starter motor as it was firing when you flicked the key yesterday, nothing lazy about the starter motor. Checked connection to starter solonoid all ok, I think electrical as something nothing getting a signal.

Immobiliser light flashes then goes solid red when you put the key in and turn, then goes out. Nothing

Checked fuses all ok.

There's fuel to injector line (white clip)

No fault codes stored or pending.

Any ideas please.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:15 pm
by CherryVimto
You say it isn't turning over, but then you say the starter was firing when you flicked the key?

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:21 pm
by acer
CherryVimto wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:15 pm
You say it isn't turning over, but then you say the starter was firing when you flicked the key?
Sorry, it was firing and starting yesterday just fine. Just today nothing nada, nowt, kaput. :-(

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:34 pm
by Wild E. Coyote
acer wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:34 pm
It won't turn over and when the key is in the third start position the needles don't run round the dials?
If that was the case, that was the sign of a flat battery. Is the battery OK?

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:37 pm
by acer
Wild E. Coyote wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:34 pm
acer wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:34 pm
It won't turn over and when the key is in the third start position the needles don't run round the dials?
If that was the case, that was the sign of a flat battery.
12.6v and tried set of jump leads. No difference.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:49 pm
by CherryVimto
Does the starter 'click' when you turn the key?

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:58 pm
by acer
CherryVimto wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:49 pm
Does the starter 'click' when you turn the key?
No nothing other than fuel pump priming.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:31 pm
by acer
Looking through other posts would a buggered starter motor show the same symptoms. Nothing on the key?

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:53 pm
by CherryVimto
If there is no click when you turn the key, something is stopping the starter solenoid from making the starter motor turn. I believe there is a starter relay somewhere which may be the cause.
Or a faulty starter solenoid.

Those are my educated guesses.. :o)

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:58 pm
by mmc757
Are the accessories powering up?
If yes - Suspect a bad battery cable-Try jumping directly to your starter, bypassing the battery cable to prove it.
If no-suspect a bad battery cable to your fuse box if your SURE the battery is good. Check the continuity of the supply cable to the fuse box.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:02 pm
by acer
Thanks for replies, will look at starter tomorrow. Hopefully its something simple.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:31 am
by DOH
I recommend that you unplug the starter wiring harness black plastic connector going to the starter, (which can be a bit fiddly).
If you then connect a working test lamp to the unplugged small wire on the harness. ground /earth the testers other wire to the engine or body.

Get someone to turn the key to the cranking position and see if the test light illuminates. If it does then you have a problem with the starter solenoid , which might be a simple fix by spraying corroded wires in the starters unplugged connector.
If the lamp doesn't illuminate, then check the starter relay which iirc is located in the fuse box in the engine bay.

It's EXACT location will be shown in the Puma's owners handbook.

The relay might have failed or the connections that it plugs in may need cleaning with contact cleaner.
Check the relay for the smell of burning or black on the pins.
I can't be certain, but there is a possibility that you may be able to swap out the relay with another that is marked the same current and that has the same pin out. So as to get your car engine started.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:06 pm
by mmc757
DOH wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:31 am
I recommend that you unplug the starter wiring harness black plastic connector going to the starter, (which can be a bit fiddly).
If you then connect a working test lamp to the unplugged small wire on the harness. ground /earth the testers other wire to the engine or body.

Get someone to turn the key to the cranking position and see if the test light illuminates. If it does then you have a problem with the starter solenoid , which might be a simple fix by spraying corroded wires in the starters unplugged connector.
If the lamp doesn't illuminate, then check the starter relay which iirc is located in the fuse box in the engine bay.
This simple continuity check on that cable may not be adequate. If the cable is corroded, it may have enough continuity to light a test lamp but not to carry the starting current.
Actually, now that I think about it, the battery could also show 12V at rest, but not be able to put out enough current to turn the engine over. Check battery voltage while turning the key, if it bottoms out while in start, your battery is shot. You should also be able to bring the battery to your local auto parts retailer and they should be able to test it for you.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:10 pm
by acer
Fingers crossed, sorted. Removed the starter, cleaned and bench tested all ok. Then went through each cable cleaned connections with emery paper along with earth leads. No breakage, crushed or stretched wiring. Put it all back together and took a jump from my old Fiesta, the Puma roared well purred, the exhaust is next on a list that's getting longer.

Checked battery voltage when turning over and the battery despite showing 12.6v wasn't cranking enough. New battery on order should be here tomorrow at local motor factors. Only had it a week today, here hoping straight forward teething issues where its been sat dry stored.

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. :grin:

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:00 pm
by Wild E. Coyote
acer wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:10 pm
Checked battery voltage when turning over and the battery despite showing 12.6v wasn't cranking enough.
Sometimes the voltage is OK, but current needed is not there. I had the same situation with my honda. It was giving 12.7V, but not turning the engine. Tester showed it had 120 Amps out of declared 330... After replacement, works like a charm.

On another note, if I may suggest? This part of forum is more of Knowledge base, sort of how-to for common problems. When you have a specific problem, it would be better to use the one of regular sections so this section of forum stays sort of clean and easier to browse through...

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:35 pm
by DOH
mmc757 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:06 pm
DOH wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:31 am
I recommend that you unplug the starter wiring harness black plastic connector going to the starter, (which can be a bit fiddly).
If you then connect a working test lamp to the unplugged small wire on the harness. ground /earth the testers other wire to the engine or body.

Get someone to turn the key to the cranking position and see if the test light illuminates. If it does then you have a problem with the starter solenoid , which might be a simple fix by spraying corroded wires in the starters unplugged connector.
If the lamp doesn't illuminate, then check the starter relay which iirc is located in the fuse box in the engine bay.
This simple continuity check on that cable may not be adequate. If the cable is corroded, it may have enough continuity to light a test lamp but not to carry the starting current.
Actually, now that I think about it, the battery could also show 12V at rest, but not be able to put out enough current to turn the engine over. Check battery voltage while turning the key, if it bottoms out while in start, your battery is shot. You should also be able to bring the battery to your local auto parts retailer and they should be able to test it for you.
Hi MMC757 . The Small wire I recommended testing with the test lamp does not carry the current to turn the starter motor. The test I have recommended is sufficient because that small wire activates the solenoid only , the current required to do that isn't very high at all.
To clarify that small thin wire doesn't take the starting current , the thicker wire does.

Puma 1.7 won't start-Any advice please

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:28 pm
by mmc757
oh, sorry, I jumped to a conclusion without reading closely enough. I've sort of stopped suspecting the solenoids in the last few years because I dont hear much about them failing anymore.