JASAPP

Do you have a Puma that is a project? Do you want to track the progress with your own thread? Feel free to do it here.

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Post by tuonokid » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Just had a thought, does the new box have a fixed shaft at the back of the engine as that would be a good place to mount a trigger as there is only rotary movement on that.
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:39 pm

tuonokid wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:06 pm
Hi Sinisa
The trigger wheels I've seen are usually quite light duty so to weld those to the flange of the driveshaft would be quite difficult but i'm sure you could epoxy them on but is there room on the inner flange because the flange is quite recessed down into the gearbox and there are strengthening webs around there (from memory)
That is actually not a bad idea! Glueing it in place. There is enough space, I checked. The only problem would be scaling down the signal as it would be 4-5 times bigger frequency, than needed. Ok, that is one option. Still think the best option is using the rear hubs, but alternative solution is always a bonus.

I might open up a gearbox and check if there is enough space on differential to take the tone ring from MTX75, but am very reluctant to the idea of drilling the housing so woud rather mount the sensor from outside...
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Post by XAF » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:44 pm

Sinisa, you have blown my mind again!! How do you even know where to start with this stuff?!!

I’m in awe, and can’t wait to see the result!
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:25 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bQzkdK2ha0

1:40...
A bit from here, a bit from there.... :wink:

All is there on the net, you just have to search and study :!:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:52 pm

So, a smallish update. I am sorry that progress is very slow, but I am just so busy lately and by the time I get home it is pitch dark and cold and since I have no heating in my mancave the things are not progressing as I would like them to!

So I am now focusing mainly on research and planning...

Anyway, this is the setup I am going to use (hopefully) as my VSS replacement.

Image

Image

This is the camshaft position sensor from a Hyundai i30/i20. Nothing fancy about it, just happened to have access to the connector and pigtail for it, hence the choice. When you come down to it, all are the same, i.e. do the same thing. As said, all the sensors are doing the same thing, the only differences among them is the packaging. There are som other candidates if this one turns out to be unsuitable.This one is Hall type, what is denoted by 3 wires.

Image

One wire is +, the other is ground and the third one is signal. It works both on 12V (as intended in Hyundai, most probably to be more resilient to distortions) and 5V. When sensor is in proximity of a ferrous metal it opens up the signal and sends the puls of 12V or 5V (depending on what is connected to).

There are two wire sensors which are VR (inductive) and they produce sinusoidal voltage that needs processing to be turned into voltage peaks needed by PCM, instrument cluster and PS pump. They need certain speed of rotation for the rings to be of use. The same type is used in ABS in puma and as you know it doesn't work below 5-6 kph. Hence I opted for Hall type.

I will have this tone ring laser cut from 4.5 - 5 mm thick steel plate (not stainless, it has to be magnetic)

Image

It has 9 teeth as that is what my instrument cluster needs per wheel revolution to operate. The Toyota PS pump needs 4.5 pulses per wheel revolution so that signal would need scaling down by 50%. The idea is to have it installed to the rear hub. Might make additional 3 holes for attaching it to the hub by 3 bolts to secure it properly. There will some be needed some bracket for the sensor, but will cross that bridge when come to it.

The other option would be to use another ABS sensor at rear already existing tone rings (you can just make another opening for it on the other side of the hub) but that one has 44 teeth so would need some serious scaling down (dividing by factor of 4.89 for IC and by 9.78 for PS pump) and, as already explanined, wouldn't operate below 5-6 kph, but no need for machining the hub, fabricating the bracket etc...

So that's it for the moment. When there is some development, will post it
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:23 pm

Smallish update from JASAPP. As was preparing it for a weekend drive, discovered a leak from power steering servo system. Had a good look, and the pressure pipe corroded in front. Not the cooler, but the twisted section in front of A/C compressor.

Image

That rubber which is suppsed to protect it was a reason for failure. It collected moisture and the pipe corroded through. So, had a real fun taking it out yesterday. Had to take the battery out and then only just could undo the pipe from steering rack.
Anyway, it is out. After washing, cleaning and drying...

Image

It really is a testament to stupidity of a person who designed it. It is part of high pressure circuit and it must be altogether 2 meters long with two elastic sections. It could have been made 0.5 meters in length but someone thought this was cheaper option then to put PS switch next to the rack, behind gearbox (plenty of space for that). Instead, it runs along engine to the front to get the PS swithc next to A/C compressor switch on line and then goes all the way back to the rack. Really, really stupid solution!

Talking stupid: is there anything more prone to failures than the notorious HCV? The second one broke on me. I noticed some coolant was missing, and thought I smelled it too, but this was final proof:
Image

Again the front section broke as the pipe is twisting it with the engine movements. I am so fed up with this idiotic solution that I will be making my bespoke HCV out of metal to prevent this kind of shit happening again. I will be using the solenoid part from the plastic HCV, but the housing and pipeing will be made out of aluminum or something similar. The solenoid will be bolted to it (as it is now) and that should work as intended, but hopefully no more these breakages.
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Post by tuonokid » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Hi Sinisa
How are you going to repair it, with new pipes from Ford or go to a Hydraulic shop and have custom pipes made up? When I get the pipes off my scrapper Thunder I'm hoping I can get some made up in better materials at Pirtek.
Barry
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
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1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:18 am

Hi Barry,

As interim solution I will buy another one, but will use this one as a template. The left pipe (which is broken) is only connection for the two hoses anyway. The other has to provide housing for the solenoid valve..

And if you were asking (most probably you were) about the power steering hose, I will get it repaired. As you know my plan is to get rid of it anyway later when I install the Toyota pump so this will be useless. And given the Toyotoa PS pump will be fixed to bodywork, no flexyble hoses will be needed so I will bend a copper hose and fix it to the bodywork.
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:35 pm

Spent some time with JASAPP today. Had the servohose repaired. It is made as one piece unit by Ford, the shop made it in sections. That is good, as three parts will reuse when convert everything to the Toyota PS pump.

Anyway, the rotten part that burst was remade. Here it is in picture. Reused the section where the pressure switch goes in the system and which is the reason for such a lenghty hose.

Image

The flexible parts were made new. The shop says they stopped using regular hydraulic hoses becuse they had some issues with some of the PS fluids so now they are using the Continental flexy hose which is OEM.

Image

Also, the first section which bolts to the steering rack is next to them. Those are the parts I will reuse later.

And complete set. Since it is now a five peace design, install should be much easier.

Image

Before install had all the pipes painted. Used brush and thick paint, no thinner at all to give it extra protection in the long run.

Image

Image

While the paint was curing, replaced the infamous HCV.

Image

Image

That is it at the moment. Still waiting for the paint to cure properly so haven't put the car together yet.
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Post by tuonokid » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:03 am

Hi Sinisa
Good to see the latest original part Ford HCV used, it should last at least 5 years.
Barry
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
Westfield SEIW 1800 Zetec.
Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

My Project Link - http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=23509" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:21 am

Barry, that was exactly the life I got out of FeBi unit. I swear they are all made at the same factory, just are branded and priced differently. But as I said, I will be making a alloy one which will put an end to the ticking sound of a timebomb in action that can be audible every time I am in the car....
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Post by red » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:42 pm

The HCV is so stupid, literally failing across all the Fords..KAs..Fiestas.. surely there must be a better solution already?
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:53 pm

It speaks volumes that Mk1 and all subsequent models of focus had 'classic' solution. Classic means that there is no HCV, but coolant is instead circulating all the time through the cabin heater but the heater is closed it self (i.e. no air circulation). Puma uses different logic: no flap to close the air circulation through the heater, but closing of the coolant flow.
Almost all the other manufacturers use the 'classic' solution, so draw your own conclusions.... :roll:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:28 pm

So, after letting the paint cure for a week or so, finally repaired the car. TBH, spent most of the week searching for the spanner for the hidraulic hoses and couldn't find one. Only sets and didn't want to invest so much money into them as they won't be needed....
To make things worse, found at one store spanners a piece, and they had 17/19 mm combo, but not the 18 mm!

So bought a regular 18 mm spanner and sacrificed it....

Image

Used a grinder on it and this is the result
Image

The part that was leaking is replaced by a new one.
Image

Also, the new flexy hoses just barely visible behind power steering pressure switch
Image

They are detacheable and the PS line is now a multypiece design

The hose that runs below the engine
Image

Started her up, added PS fluid, the pump right away quietened down. No leaks, working nicely.

Since the battery was detached let her idle until the fan started up, added some demineralised water in the system and went for a test drive. All working as it should, so gave her some long overdue wash and some claying as well...

What a car! :wub: :wub:
Image
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Post by tuonokid » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:57 pm

Hi Sinisa
Wouldn't a crows foot spanner have sorted it?
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
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Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:18 am

Hi Barry,

The regular fork spanner (as we call it) is not a solution as there is no space for it;the other line is very close. Any variation including that fork spanner is a no go solution.
It has to be like this, unfortunately, or the regular spanner for the hidrualic lines. That one was unobtainable so....
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:23 am

Just to report that JASAPP passed MOT again with flying colours! :grin:

Had a bit of problem initally, but that was due to me, not the car! When I appeared at MOT station, the lady at reception desk reported that my ID has expired. And she was right. Surely I can approach MOT with driver's licence? Nope, only ID or passport are valid documents. Since we became part of EU passport was no longer needed I had let it expire on purpose, but forgot to check on ID expiry date. So, it was a no go. But, in all clarity and whisdom, our goverment has left a possibility of me to authorize someone to do it for me. There is even a form for doing so. And, this is my favourite part, I can just sign it and no documents are needed to give somebody authorisation for that?!?! So I, the owner, can't approach a MOT without valid ID, but I, still without valid ID, can authorize someone to do it for me?!?
Stupid bureacrats. So I authorised my wife to stand by me while the MOT was taking place. Went to a different station but the set of questions and wonders was the same.

Are those original headlights? Yes they are.
They surely don't look like it?! You can check here the homologation numbers if you like, they are genuine....

That settled that.

Time for brake efficiency test. Hummmh, this can't be right...
Again (fiddling with his remote to start the rollers again). Hummh, this can't be right... (now turning to me): what is the mileage of this car? It is in front of you, sir, 243785 kms...
I have never seen so even brake operation on a car which is not new, even the new ones don't brake like this...?!

(I checked the printout later; front brakes have difference of 3% left and right, rears are dead same (0%) and the hand brake is the same as well).
Checked the headlights aiming and that was it. The ecotest (emissions test) was spot on, everything deep in the green. A really well made car! With that done, and weather warming up the ecoboost swap is getting imminent... :wink:
Last edited by Wild E. Coyote on Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by XAF » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:26 am

Great result Sinisa!!

Love it when garages are surprised by our little Puma’s!
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Post by tuonokid » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:17 am

Well done Sinisa, it shows the brake conversion works :thumbs: Don't we just love the EU? :grin:
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2001 ColOrado red Puma 1.7, work in progress.
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Building Westfield SEI 2.0 Zetec Blacktop on TBs.
Fiesta Style 1.25
Aprilia Tuono Factory.
1975 Yamaha TY80
Now working on my sons Anglia 105e

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Post by red » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:27 pm

Love the signing over part :grin:

Here anyone could take your car in for you provided it still had some MOT and was insured for them to drive.
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:14 pm

So, a little update. All of you who have upgraded brakes to ST150 standard (280 mm rotors at front, and rear discs at 253 mm) know that servo-master brake cylinder is struggling to keep up with that. It brakes fine until you start increasing pressure on pedal as soon the master brake cylinder maxes out and you feel that you are actually flexing the carrier and where it is attached to.
Had a good look at options. The first option was rather logycal: ST150 servo-MBC combo. If it works in fiesta ST150 with the these brakes, it should work in puma as well.
And got myself one
Image
Note how the brake fluid tank looks. Tried it, it won't clear the bonnet. Also, it uses two wire system for low fluid warning. The circuit is open when the bottle is empty, as opposed to puma system which is open when the bottle is full (meaning it activates the warning light directly; when the fulid level is low it turns on the warning light; ST150 just sends continuity signal and the PCM is activating the warning light). Also, puma has 3 wires as the handbrake activation is also trigerring the red warning light on instrument cluster. These things can be overcome, but the first problem remains.

How about using the puma bottle?
Image

It fits on MBC no problem, until you try attaching it to the servo

Image

Sadly, it won't clear the servo because of the shape. The ST150 MBC is much shorter.

So had some investigation and got me a golf MkV bottle as it looked promising and is Ate as well (Ate made servo and MBC for puma and fiesta ST150).

Got the bottle and it would clear the servo, but could not attach it to the MBC.

Image

So that ruled out ST150 servo-MBC combo.

Erroll (pumanoob) uses Mk3 mondeo servo-MBC combo so contacted him and he confirmed that. Ordered one on eBay and soon it arrived. It was from mondeo 1.8 model.

Started dismantling everything

Image

And then I realised the difference between LHD (my version) and RHD (UK version) in regards to the braking system. My car has direct activation of servo by a shaft going direct from the pedal and you guys have a crossbar so the rear attachment on brake servo is different.

Image

And the RHD mondeo version

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Got a LHD mondeo servo (2.0 TDCI version) form Germany and gave it a refreshment

Image

First trial fit to confirm it clears everything

Image

It clears the ABS just

Image

(a really close shave there!)
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:15 pm

There is more to it, will post it later :wink:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:30 pm

First bonnet closure test

Image

Made a cone out of paper and closed the bonnet to check for the clearance

And this was the result, so plenty of space over the brake fluid tank

Image

This was the test ST150 MBC failed big time.

Also, worth pointing out that mondeo uses the same 3 wire system as puma does for lighting up the warning light on instrument cluster. The connector is different, but it is not a problem. Mine servo came without the connector, Mk1 focus fits as well. I got mine at scrapy from a Mk1 focus.

After that it was just a case of bolting everything together. Puma MBC has outlets facing to the centre of the vehicle, mondeo has on opposite side, facing the battery. Luck has it the outlets are angled up so it clears the battery, but just.

Got myself a pair of brakelines at a local hydraulic shop. You will need length of 50 cm. The both sides need M12x1 connection; on MBC and ABS module all the connections use this thread. Started bending them and got to stage where I could bolt it all together.

The first attempt had the first line going beneath the second one.
Image

Tried it with battery in place and was not happy with the outcome

Image

If left like this, battery could not go out unless the brake lines are disconnected and that was not something I could do and live with myselft later.

Image

So bent line a bit different and could clear the battery at taking out. That was something, progress!

With that success got a bit greedy (the car has to be dismanteable as a stock one!) and tried to lift out the battery container as well. It would not go because of this corner.

Image

Image

Also, the container was touching the master brake cylinder and that was also something I could not accept. During drive everythign vibrates and this contact is just asking for trouble.

So took out the old trusty heatgun and started heating that corner and deforming it to a shape needed

Image

It needed only few mm.

Image

That cleared the MBC and with the elastic strap holding the airfilter box detached I can now take out the battery container as well. The inlet hose moves a bit and that few extra mm of movement is enough for battery container to clear the brake line.

Image

Image

Image

With that settled, started putting everything together, but routed the front line differently, over the second one.

The only thing left to do was to connect the wires. I cut the original connector and soldered the mondeo one.

This is how the wires should be connected, should anyone need that info.

Image

The red-black should be joined with the redblack from original, yellow goes to blue on original, and the blue-black from mondeo goes to the black on original.

Soldering, and heatshrinking

Image

Image

And using that fancy Tesa tape (the cloth type for keping them together) for car instalations

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Making it look neat and tidy

Image

After that, the usual job of bleeding the brakes all around and replacing the brake fluid at the same time

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Like rallyesque look of puma on stands (the whole installation)!

Image

After that went for a spin. These are the findings: the stopping power is immense. Now I can at 100 kph start braking and increasing the pedal pressure to a point ABS kicks in. Previously that was not so easy. I had to hit the brakes to activate ABS. This servo and MBC are just what these brakes need to perform to their full potential.
But there is a problem. The shaft of mondeo servo is a bit longer then on puma. Tried to counteract that by placing some spacers and move the servo away a bit from the pedal assembly.

Image

(The left arrow points to a desintagrated foam that served as water barrier; put some dynamat over it as it will keep the water away).

This was trial fit with 4 spacers and in the end went with two only. Tomorrow will try to put all four of them. I discovered that with this setup brakes are always applied a bit; I have to lift the pedal by foot to release them and then it is only just.
Also, I think I have a bit of drag in master brake cylinder. The original lines coming from MBC to ABS moduel were 6 mm, and now I have put on 5 mm as that was what that shop did. I guess that is a restriction preventing the master brake cylinder to release fast?
Barry, you are a good DIY-er and have built a westy; is my reckoning correct?
Anyway, I will replace the lines and if that and adding two spacers doesn't release brakes completely when I am not braking, I will use the UK version and have a shaft mashined to a measure and build into it some length adjustment.
I haven't seen that there is any sort of pedal adjustment possible, but stand to be corrected. Is there any adjustment of brake pedal possible?

That is all; since you don't have this shaft problem as you can combine various bits and pieces I would recommend upgrading the servo and master brake cylinder with big brake setup. It is a next level, like dropping an anchor!
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:13 pm

Glad to report that replacing the brake lines with the ones in original size (being 6 mm OD) made brakes behave as tehy should. They are more reponsive and much faster at releasing!

Image

Nothing new here to be seen from this angle.

But this one reveals a change

Image

A bit overdid it with plastic ties, but that plastic T holder broke on me so trying to hold the cables in their position like this...

Image

I admit, not a very nice sight, but I am a strong believer in taking unnecesary strain of electric cables equals longeivity and reliability....

Ok, still need to shorten the rod coming from pedal to the brake servo, but getting there! The brakes are fabulous now :thumbs:
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Post by Wild E. Coyote » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:48 pm

Just finished working on the car and am glad to report it is all working as it should now. The rod from servo was a bit to long. reverted to the RHD version of a servo which has that connecting point (can be seen above in previous posts).
Took one LHD servo just lying around and cut the rod off and had it machined to my spec. Also had the connecting part made and threw in M10 thread for the good measure to enable adjustability.

Image

Image

And assembled

Image

Image

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And compared to the old unit

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Of course, being as stupid as I am, shortened it to the max and assembled everything including bleeding the system. Started her up and only then realised what an idiot I have been! Haven't checked the pedal travel and the brakelights switch. Needless to say, the pedal was to low and the brakelights on all the time.
With system already bled, I was so dissapointed that left it just like that for the whole week until found enough determination and motivation to disassemble everything again, catch the brake fluid (really nasty stuff destroying the paint) and legthen the rod until got to the desired and needed length.

Anyway, just bled the system and it is now working as it should. The brake release is without hesitating, no drag, just awesome braking power to be enjoyed!

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And just to prove the connector was soldiered correctly: with hand brake applied the light is on

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With your cars I guess the swap is much easier affair but I suspect the length of that pedal rod might not be OK in combination with mondeo servo.
Anyway, I would recommend this to anyone who has improved his brakes as the original servo-master brake cylinder is really marginal. I don't know how it copes with the braking system of FRP, to be honest...?
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