controversial post

[Lord B]

I've always been the cheap and cheerful, hoon factor, as said on other thread, my puma currently stands me at £650, I'm at thruxton on 14th august if anyone wants to come out for a few passenger laps to see what £650 gets you, then your welcome

IMHO the more track focused a car is, the less 'fun' it becomes, driving a car on its limits is far more fun than something that has mega power, trick suspension, stripped and silly money spent on it

at combe one of the cars that is budget hoon, that all sorts of people borrowed was a V40 T4, remapped, runs on slicks and just kept running from bits scavenged from where ever, its a hoot to drive, gets canned all day, and won't die

 

[trublustu]

My oh my, something has got right up you nose on this one noob...

Its not just cars and trackdays either, there are armchair "experts" in all walks of life.
You can always spot them, not interested in the mod youve thought through and developed yourself and are trying out on track,
but happy to tell you about "their mate" who broke the speed of light in his Jap turbo rocket with everything in the catalogue thrown at it.
If it were fishing, they`d have a story about the one that got away.

All mouth and no trouser.
The best advice tends to come from those who are less "free" with their opinions and offer considered counsel, when sought (if they like you!).

Just drive the thing, then you can smugly sit back and listen in on fish bloke telling someone about the latest cams made from platinum....
You know your stuff and you do drive very well, enjoy it.
If you wanted to be getting every last 0.001 second off your lap times, you`d be under the car more than in it.

I track for fun and to try my own ideas, not to "beat" everyone else to compensate for whatever piss poor life these gobshites lead. (ooh, I am mean)

As I said to the guy trying to palm cheap SkyTv to me -------- I`m a doer, not a viewer.

(now who`s on a rant...)

 

[Ian G]

If you really want to squeeze a few more seconds then a few things:

Go in to Britten's a bit slower - on a few of the laps you're under-steering on the final left to stay on the track so still decelerating. Slower in, hold a tighter line in the right hander and you'll be back on the power earlier to get you up Hilltop. That's a fairly long straight so a few extra MPH along it will give you a marked advantage on the laptimes. I'd be interested to see your peak speed down there in the lap that the red MX5 was ahead of you - the line was nicer and you were back on the power far earlier.

Run it out wider after Old Hall - and probably go in a bit later although that requires a bit of mind over matter if you're already going quick.

You appear to come in to Cascades a bit too soon - which if you're taking Dentons flat probably means there's enough grip to follow that on the right side of the track and make a bit better use of the turn-in. There again - your speed from Cascades will dictate the entire contribution of Lakeside / Island to the laptime.

Other than that is very well driven - and I certainly wouldn't say there is heaps of time to be found - you are giving the car a good workout.

If anyone tells you big power is better, flash them out of the way.

 

[PumaJay]

Here's a video of mine on board at oulton, constructive criticism welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHynJimOdYg

 

[stephengreen]

Here's a video of mine on board at oulton, constructive criticism welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHynJimOdYg

That's a wonderfully smooth demonstration of how to drive a lap with a fair degree of mechanical sympathy and speed. Constructive criticism? Introduce heel and toe to your down shifts. Though in my experience that's doable up to 90% but much harder at ten tenths driving.

 

[PumaJay]

I do try to heel and toe when I can, that was my last session had a nice big gap with no cars around so just aimed to be as smooth as I can and make sure I get my lines right. I tend to find the puma doesnt react to being "ragged" its much better to be delicate with it and maximise corner exit speed. Sacrifice abit on the way in to be faster on the way out.

Mechanical sympathy? I dont have any of that.

 

[stephengreen]

Mechanical sympathy and smoothness go together. When I took my A.R.D.S test at Silverstone, it was one of the key attributes the examiner was looking for. I don't know if you hold a race license too, but you'd pass easy if you ever fancy competing proper.

 

[PumaJay]

I dont hold a race license but I am looking to do my ARDS test sooner rather than later. I suppose in being smooth that your easier on the car which is mechanical sympathy but im always more than happy to push the car beyond its limit to see how much stick it can take.

When I was at Blyton Park earlier this year I was very aggressive, mainly because there's nothing to hit so you can push on abit harder. I also broke most of the front suspension that day on the curbs!

 

[Noobrider]

Wow, some great posts there, let me see if I can address everyone individually:
Trublustu, agree but we all like to go a bit quicker and whilst you can't beat lots of track time, getting quicker is part of the fun and you have to admit overtaking the big boys gives you a huge sense of satisfaction in a budget racer. By the way I'll say it again top bloke and a real pleasure to meet you and your Mrs, you really do embody the spirit of budget track days

Ian G, fabulous critique there, exactly what I was looking for, I thought I was doing Brittens fairly well but after reviewing I see what you mean. Old Hall was my most inconsistent corner, never seem to pick either the right braking point or the turn in point. Cascades I totally agree, I had a couple of bites at that one on several laps and knew I was turning too early, had loads of grip and could have left it much later but I was leaving/catching a lot of people there and was much faster than most. Lodge was also a bit od a dodgy one for me, I felt I braked way too early but then when I tried later braking it didn't feel as quick and less under control. Later in the day on the last run I did manage to get some very quick times in around the 2:12/13 mark but my video had run out of battery so Trublustu...that was the big fish that got away lol.

Pumajay, nice video, I watched that before my first attempt round Oulton. Very smooth and consistent and PS I love your car. I would say though learn how to trail brake, it will transform your lap times and your enjoyment. I timed a few of your laps and your running around 2.22 a lap, I'm pretty sure you could knock at least 5 seconds a lap off trail braking and using the weight shift for more power out of the corners and later braking into them. I'm going to see if I can do a side by side montage to show you what I mean....might take some time though lol. The Puma does like to be ragged and is very polite with it - hangs in there forever and gives you lots of info back to tell you when to plant your foot further. It will be very rare to completely lose the back end, they drift for fun all day long.

This is turning into a great thread with some fantastic contributors, thank you all for you input so far

Here's a video from my sons Puma powered Fiesta running semi slicks. This shows some of my lines from behind plus the trail braking - also some footage of Trublustu doing his thing with a near miss at 9:50...silly Peugeot - change of underwear for Stu please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvJpERMJr9g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[aaron86]

I can't really give you any advice on your driving as you are a much more experienced driver on the track than myself. The lines look good on these videos and as you say getting tuition off instructors on the day is essential but as long as you keep enjoying yourself that's all that matters.
I never even changed a wheel on a car or done a track day before getting my puma, I wanted a track car and do as much myself as possible and this site and it's members are so good for this. There doesn't seem to be any bodge it and scarper chavs just decent people that enjoy their cars and want to help others, I know it sounds soppy but personal experience.

 

[Noobrider]

Agree aaron, in the most part its a great resource here and everyone has the same sense of wanting to help and share experience....if a little slowly. The forum doesn't quite buzz as much as some others but then again I do tend to only view certain parts like racing and projects - I should visit other areas more often. You did some blinding laps at Cadwell if I recall - made me review my wet laps there and see how you were so quick

 

[PumaJay]

Time to start getting braver on the brakes then for me, I did think that was my one area of weakness, im trying to get all the braking and gear changing done before turn in when I suppose I should be leaving it abit later with some heel and toe.

Ive never had tuition on a track day before, mainly as I dont think Id hear anything they were telling me but Im deffo gonna book some for my next outing.

 

[stephengreen]

Tuition is the best money you'll ever spend if you want to gain performance. Personally I've booked Anthony Dunn, ARDS instructor and radical champ for whole day at Silverstone with two friends to share cost. Plus several one to one sessions with Silverstone instructors for an hour at a time in the circuit exige's. I've also been on numerous drift courses in Caterham's and rally courses in escorts too. I just love learning. Problem for me now, is that I'm far to old to put any of it into practise :-(

 

[PumaJay]

your never too old!

 

[Ziggy]

noob - pretty handy driving - just a few things...

Foulstons
Slightly slower into Foulstons allows you to get onto throttle as soon as you start turning right, no need to lift until braking for knickerbrook - at the moment you are later on the throttle for the run up hilltop which is loosing you time.

Ditto knickerbrook - slower in means faster out especially on the next uphill section to druids.

Druids
First apex is a false apex - stay around a cars width away from it, which will then open out the second true apex and will the car run rather than scrubbing off speed by keeping it tight.

Island
There's two normal lines through here, keeping tight and scrubbing off speed or letting it run to the outside before having to fight it back over to the left on banking for entry into shell oils. Try both and see which is best for lap time.

Car mods

If you can, stiffen up the back to reduce understeer a bit, you can also trail brake into the tighter corners / hairpins and use the cars rotation to reduce your steering input and maximise forward acceleration.

Fit a sequential shift light, sequential gives you the advantage of being able to monitor rate of change and time next gear change much more accurately. I'd recommend http://www.caraddiction.co.uk/sld5.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as value for money.

Its hard to see if you are coasting prior to starting your braking phase, ditto how you apply the throttle. To analyse this you will need to invest in a basic data logger, I'd recommend a second hand racelogic performance box which can, IIRC as an option, also log the output voltage from your TPS sensor. Other data loggers exist as well such as Race Technology's DL1.

 

[stephengreen]

Those Shift lights seriously good value for money. There're going straight on my shopping list.

 

[Noobrider]

Nice one Ziggy, appreciate that. I do trail brake a lot, probably a bit too much sometimes as the car is set up for a bit more oversteer than understeer - Ray Grimes ARDS instructor sorted me on that and its now perfect according to him and I do like the set up, suits my style.

Foulstons, I did try both but had got into the habit of trailbraking in and lift off oversterr out.

Knickerbrook was much faster than most drivers but again I see the point as I drifted out abit on the left exit and tried to use the lift off oversteer to pull it back in

Druids got faster as the day progressed as you say staying out a bit wider on the first turn means faster through the second

Island, I tried both, depending on how much speed I'd carried from cascades and how brave I felt.

Shift light is on its way...eventually, I have my eye on a digital dash that has a shift light built in.

I dont think I coast prior to any braking, its either brake or throttle, although I do occassionally use a bit of mid corner lift off oversteer to pull the front end round a bit, cascades was an example when I turned in a bit too early and exiting knicerbrook if I overcooked it, I will also confess to using lift off oversteer into clay hill instead of braking occassionally

 

[Noobrider]

on the subject of ARDS instruction there are two guys I would really really recommend. The first is Ray Grimes, he has raced just about everything except F1, one of his big favourites though was the German Puma cup. The Puma is one of his favourite cars and he swoons over any he sees on track days. He campaigned quite hard to try and get a UK Puma cup back in the day and also put forward suggestions to replace the XR series with Pumas. He is currently trying to arrange some finance and sponsorship to get into the new Puma cup series if at all possible with his very busy schedule. Had him in my car at my first Oulton session and he was a hoot and made me about 7 seconds a lap faster - can't wait to get him back in my car to show him the improvements since last time.

Next guy is probably the opposite of Ray, young Ben Jackson, and amazing Radical racer that has the lap record for a Radical round Silverstone. Very easy going youngster that has skills beyond his age - coincidentally taught by Ray and now faster than him. He's a personal aquaintence, know him through a close friend and track buddy. Amazing driver and up and coming instructor.

A couple of other instructors I've had have been good if a little condescending and a bit too interested in themselves than you as a pupil. No one else has made such radical changes to my driving or my enjoyment, what Ray taught me was worth an extra 30 bhp. I can see him now holding my gearstick not allowing me to change gear and shouting keep you foot down, faster faster - wait wait, don't brake keep accelerating, this car can take it I'm loving your car go round again...lol. He got out of the car and said, thats the most fun I've had all day. Then kept coming back to our garage and looking at the car saying that is set up perfect, you need to drive that car to everyone in the garage... I offered him a go but he didn't have any free time.

 

[stephengreen]

The one instructor I've used but definatly wouldn't recommend is simon mason. I had an hours one to one in his race prepared mx5. He turned out to be the rudest, most arrogant person I've ever come across, with no communication skills at all in my opinion. Works for track day company bookatrack now I belive. I'm struggling not to give ray Grimes a ring now, but not sure being 7 secs a lap faster is worth letting him hold my gear stick
Think there is a puma cup race on at donington 31/7/14 I think. I'm giving serious consideration to having a day out there to watch them race.

 

[PumaJay]

I think I met Ray Grimes when I did Oulton Park last year, he spent a good 30 mins looking round my car and was asking if he could have a go in it, Cant be 100% sure it was him but he did say he'd raced in the Puma Cup in Germany.

I think in the end he gave me a free tutorial on how to drive the track. Very nice fella!