Idle speed too high after throttle mod

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grogee

Active member
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
543
Got a problem with idle speed after I changed my throttle body to Mondeo 2.0 one and enlarged the manifold opening.

Can't get idle speed below 2000 RPM and it's generally racing too high and only settles to 2000 RPM after a few seconds of throttle off. The throttle plate itself is sitting in the correct position and the cable is moving properly.

I had a go at turning the plastic screw in the idle control valve but I've borked it (is it supposed to turn?). Ordered a new one.

If there was an air leak would the idle speed go high or low?
 
Air leaks idle high unless its a large leak which will cause the car to battle itself hopelessly and run like garbage if it runs at all.
This sounds like an IACV issue.
 
thanks, ordered new valve so hoping that'll cure it. Are they adjustable?
 
Not really, They are cleanable sometimes, but I have a personal suspicion that the coil windings degrade after a couple of decades of use.
 
Did you clear the PCM adaptive values after replacing the TB? Whenever you make some replacements at inlet, you should clear the adaptive values. That means disconnecting the battery for few minutes. That will reset the PCM (ECU). After that, reconnect the battery, start the engine and let it idle. As the engine is warming up the idling speed should drop. After few minutes it should go back to the proper idle value if anything else is in order.
 
Update: turns out I'd broken the IACV trying to adjust it. Fitted a new one £20ish, Lucas brand. Idle now behaving *nearly*, the revs still hang a bit but eventually drop to 1000rpm. I realise this is still too high.

Hmm good tip about PCM. Pretty sure battery has been connected the whole time. Just for radio presets really. I'll disconnect for a few hours then try again. Thanks all.
 
Also my friendly MoT man passed the car with the idle all over the place... What a star.
 
Idle still at about 1000RPM after battery reset. And it 'hangs' before settling down to that speed.

Did any of you do the throttle body mod then experience poor running? It seems to have a flat spot higher up the revs, 5000RPM ish. I am thinking it needs remapping now to offset the extra air.
 
High idle sounds like a small air leak still, or maybe your new throttle is allowing more air through when shut than the Puma throttle did.
The throttle should have two things that affect that. The first is a small hole drilled in the throttle plate, the second is an adjustable stop screw on the throttle that prevents the plate from jamming shut into the aluminum body.

You can check the adjusting screw visually, just make sure its set to close completely without jamming into the aluminum too hard. While your inspecting it, you can experiment with the throttle plate hole by placing a piece of strong tape over the hole, then trying the car and see if the idle is correct or not. If its correct, the permanent fix is to put a screw through that hole.

If the throttle is not the culprit, than you either have a leak or the IACV itself isn't quite letting the right flow through. Unfortunately, off the shelf IACV's seem to be hit or miss quality.
One way to compensate is to install a home-made orifice in the IACV supply line. Use a copper or PVC pipe cap that fits exactly inside the IACV supply hose, and drill a small hole in it to allow air flow. Test that out, and adjust orifice hole size as needed until your happy with the performance.

As for the flat spot, your PCM should be more than capable of adjusting itself for a new throttle, I wouldn't spend money on a tune for that. More likely is that the throttle capacity now exceeds the capacity of the intake manifold or some other portion of the system and 5K is pretty close to your max airflow limit right now.
The first thing to rule out is your air filter. Try making a run with the air filter and box removed completely. I know that's scary, just don't do it on gravel or in a dirty environment. If the flat spot is gone, its time for a better filter setup. If the flat spot isn't gone, the first thing to dummy check is that the plumbing and MAF are at least as big as the throttle. If any portion of the system is smaller than the throttle, than that piece becomes your limiting factor. Assuming the plumbing is good, the most likely next culprit is the intake manifold itself, for which there are limited options short of a custom build or an FRP manifold.

The other oddball that could be throwing a wrench into your works is fuel. I would think the pump should be adequate for any bolt-on mod, but your fuel filter may be dirty enough that it cant really pass enough flow at the high RPM's.
 
Thanks, that's a really helpful reply. I was wondering whether to plug the IACV but I'd like to leave that as a last resort.

I did all the right things sealing-wise eg clean gasket faces, use new gaskets etc. I've checked around the vacuum hoses and nothing is wrong there.

So that leads me down the pinhole in the butterfly - as you say it could well be the culprit. I am loathe to use a screw to plug it and I was thinking I might try solder because I'd much rather it was flush with plate. Either that or epoxy (JB weld). My worry is that it gets ingested into engine...

Fuel filter replaced last year and it hasn't done many miles, maybe 5k or something. Air filter the same although it is a pattern part. Do K&N do a 'lifetime' type filter element?
 
Here's another thought...I'm not sure about the 2.0 throttles, but the 2.5l throttles had two different actuating mechanism's. One of them was a more complex, 2 stage "progressive" actuator which had some different response characteristics that people could find jarring when switching from the more direct actuator. Visually, if your not looking for the difference, you might not notice it or pay much attention to it.
Maybe just compare the actuators from your old throttle to the new one and see if they respond at the same rate.
This probably isn't the issue, but its an easy thing to look at.

Of course, your air flow issue could also be causing the high RPM issue, so I would deal with that first.
 
Here's another thought...I'm not sure about the 2.0 throttles, but the 2.5l throttles had two different actuating mechanism's. One of them was a more complex, 2 stage "progressive" actuator which had some different response characteristics that people could find jarring when switching from the more direct actuator. Visually, if your not looking for the difference, you might not notice it or pay much attention to it.
Maybe just compare the actuators from your old throttle to the new one and see if they respond at the same rate.
This probably isn't the issue, but its an easy thing to look at.

Of course, your air flow issue could also be causing the high RPM issue, so I would deal with that first.
 
So I soldered the pinhole to seal it and I've still got a high idle. Will try plugging the IACV next. I think the problem comes from me machining the throttle butterfly to have a knife edge on its leading edge. I think that has taken some material away from where it fits next to throttle body at idle position. Hence a bit more airflow.

Regarding the actuator - standard and Mondeo use a different actuator spindle (which is a different part to the butterfly spindle). Originally I tried to modify the Puma actuator to fit on the larger Mondeo spindle but it wasn't moving smoothly and the springs didn't fit right. So took a tip from this forum and did this:

Remove Mondeo spindle with a stud remover
Drilled out spindle mounting boss thread to 8.6mm
Tap M10
Insert thread insert m10 outside M6 inside
Screw puma spindle into insert
Attach actuator and springs onto Puma spindle

This gives the correct fittings and movement for Puma throttle on Mondeo size throttle body.
 
Can you try to install the oem 1.7 TB to find out whether it idles ok? In that way you can eliminate the problem down to the TB itself or something else.
 
There's the tiniest of gaps with the butterfly in the closed position. As in the butterfly doesn't seal the body completely. It's the tiniest of gaps, less than a hair, but enough to see some light through if you hold it up. I may refit original but it's a bit of a faff. More inclined to block IACV a bit and 'tune' the idle that way.

In theory the valve will compensate but I'm thinking it's 'closed' fully trying to adjust for the extra air. Hence blocking it (a bit) might allow it to operate and bring idle down to 7-800 rpm or whatever it's supposed to be.
 

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