Two little questions

[Puman88]

Hi all,

M'Puma seems to be running well (aside from a sort of metallic rubbing noise when I take my foot off the accelerator in gear, but no loss of power etc). Probably just a Puma noise, I hope (have had bearings and shocks replaced recently).

I have had some major underside rust repair done (the driver's side floor/sills) and now all that is left is some (hopefully) cosmetic rust over the rear arches. I've had various repair quotes (£450-£1500) but don't exactly have a money tree in my garden, I wondered if there's a solution to this I've not thought of yet? My Puma is silver so really shows the rust off, has anyone discovered a reasonably cheap fix for such an issue? Spray painting over it isn't going to work of course but I can't afford to get someone to cut it all out and repair it at the moment.

Also, the 'door open' dashboard light is always on, I'm guessing this is a common fault, again has anyone got any suggestions what to do there? I can't see any form of sensors in the doors/boot so not sure where to look next.

Thanks

 

[John Woodward]

The only real answer for the arches is new metal, I had reasonable success on my tatty Thunder, by grinding out all the rust, then rust converter, zinc primer, primer, waterproof filler and finishing off, it was a lot of work and looked better than rust, but after 5 months of daily winter use, only a little bit of rust had come through. It is important to remove the rust on the rear of the arch, once the arch liners have been removed. But having new metal is far better, on my Red Puma I supplied the arch repair panels and it was done in a few days for £500, the result is really good and the car looks pretty good now.
The door alarm warning light was on on my Thunder as the under bonnet switch wasn't working, so I disconnected it, the boot latch white plastic switch was also broken/loose, but I managed to make a temporary repair and the door alarm light went off when everything was closed.

 

[Puman88]

The only real answer for the arches is new metal, I had reasonable success on my tatty Thunder, by grinding out all the rust, then rust converter, zinc primer, primer, waterproof filler and finishing off, it was a lot of work and looked better than rust, but after 5 months of daily winter use, only a little bit of rust had come through. It is important to remove the rust on the rear of the arch, once the arch liners have been removed. But having new metal is far better, on my Red Puma I supplied the arch repair panels and it was done in a few days for £500, the result is really good and the car looks pretty good now.
The door alarm warning light was on on my Thunder as the under bonnet switch wasn't working, so I disconnected it, the boot latch white plastic switch was also broken/loose, but I managed to make a temporary repair and the door alarm light went off when everything was closed.

Thank you John.
Time for me to buy some trousers with deeper pockets.

 

[John Woodward]

If the rest of the car is Ok, it's worth spending the money to have it done properly. If you can find someone locally, who isn't VAT registered and works on their own, with low overheads, that'll help keep the cost down.
The Thunder I had was very tatty and wasn't worth spending any money on, I sold it on, with an honest description for nearly enough to pay for the arch repair.

 

[GreenEyedPuma]

Puman88,
Hi, regarding the metallic rubbing noise you can hear in gear, when you take your foot off the accelerator, it could be from the right hand driveshaft intermediate bearing and restraining strap. Have you had that driveshaft out, to either replace the inner / outer boots or CV joints, or to give easier access to other things?

I had a Ford dealer replace the inner CV joint boot on that driveshaft and sometime soon after, I started getting similar noises, but more noticeable with clutch in, in between gear changes and more pronounced at lower speeds. Obviously, Ford said this was nothing to do with their work on the CV joint boot. They tried to scare me off with a very expensive sounding "it sounds like the gearbox main bearings".

It got worse and at MOT time, the inspector showed me that there was lots of metallic dust / filings around the intermediate bearing, indicating it was wearing and probably causing the noise. Fortunately, it wasn't bad enough for an MOT fail on that!

I subsequently found out from the Ford TIS workshop procedures for removing / re-installing the right hand driveshaft, that the intermediate bearing restraining strap and both nuts MUST be discarded when removed and replaced with new on re-installation. The restraining strap on my car was obviously still the original from the factory, as it was old, worn and painted black. I got replacements from Ford parts department and the strap was bright shiny nickel plated, so obviously the Ford dealer had not followed the workshop procedure to discard and replace them, when replacing the CV joint boot.

I replaced the restraining strap and both nuts myself and it certainly improved the problem, but by then, I think the wear damage had been done to the intermediate bearing itself! The noises slowly came back, but I later had to have the right hand complete driveshaft (gearbox to wheel) replaced. I got another new restraining strap and nuts from a Ford parts dept. again, to provide to the independent garage that replaced the driveshaft, to ensure that everything was done correctly, as per the Ford workshop procedure advised (even if Ford themselves didn't follow it)!

The driveshaft had to be replaced, after a tyre fitters jacked the car up to do a puncture repair and bust one of the tri-pode sections of the inner CV joint on it. I only found that out some time later, after trying to find out why I was getting vibrations when the car got over 50mph. By the time my independent garage pointed out the broken CV joint, it was too long afterwards to try to get anything out of the tyre fitter's towards the repair!

Cautionary tale on jacking up cars on uneven ground: The tyre fitter's had parked the car with the left hand side higher up a sideways incline and jacked up the rear left corner, to remove the wheel for a puncture repair. I think that higher side then over-extended the driveshaft on the diagonally opposite front right and broke the inner CV tri-pode joint on it! Ford TIS workshop procedures advise when removing the driveshaft from the wheel knuckle, etc., not to let the floating half-shaft drop by more than a certain angle (I can't remember how much, but not very much!), as the inner CV joint can be damaged! Well, I think that explained the damage caused by the way the tyre fitter's jacked the car up!

These days, after market replacement complete driveshafts are cheap enough to make more economic sense to replace complete, than for labour charges to dismantle an existing one, to replace individual components on it (inner or outer CV joints, intermediate bearing, or boots, etc.).

I hope this helps and if the driveshaft intermediate bearing does show metallic dust / filings around it, try replacing the restraining strap & nuts, to see if that changes or improves the noise you can hear. It'll be relatively cheap and simple to do yourself, if you have a jack and axle stands. If it does improve things, depending on how much you want to get rid of it completely, you could later think about replacing the entire driveshaft (and restraining strap and nuts again) to completely eliminate any remaining noise!

 

[Puman88]

If the rest of the car is Ok, it's worth spending the money to have it done properly. If you can find someone locally, who isn't VAT registered and works on their own, with low overheads, that'll help keep the cost down.
The Thunder I had was very tatty and wasn't worth spending any money on, I sold it on, with an honest description for nearly enough to pay for the arch repair.

I was hoping to find exactly someone like this, but have no idea what to google to find such a person!

 

[Puman88]

Puman88,
Hi, regarding the metallic rubbing noise you can hear in gear, when you take your foot off the accelerator, it could be from the right hand driveshaft intermediate bearing and restraining strap. Have you had that driveshaft out, to either replace the inner / outer boots or CV joints, or to give easier access to other things?

I had a Ford dealer replace the inner CV joint boot on that driveshaft and sometime soon after, I started getting similar noises, but more noticeable with clutch in, in between gear changes and more pronounced at lower speeds. Obviously, Ford said this was nothing to do with their work on the CV joint boot. They tried to scare me off with a very expensive sounding "it sounds like the gearbox main bearings".

It got worse and at MOT time, the inspector showed me that there was lots of metallic dust / filings around the intermediate bearing, indicating it was wearing and probably causing the noise. Fortunately, it wasn't bad enough for an MOT fail on that!

I subsequently found out from the Ford TIS workshop procedures for removing / re-installing the right hand driveshaft, that the intermediate bearing restraining strap and both nuts MUST be discarded when removed and replaced with new on re-installation. The restraining strap on my car was obviously still the original from the factory, as it was old, worn and painted black. I got replacements from Ford parts department and the strap was bright shiny nickel plated, so obviously the Ford dealer had not followed the workshop procedure to discard and replace them, when replacing the CV joint boot.

I replaced the restraining strap and both nuts myself and it certainly improved the problem, but by then, I think the wear damage had been done to the intermediate bearing itself! The noises slowly came back, but I later had to have the right hand complete driveshaft (gearbox to wheel) replaced. I got another new restraining strap and nuts from a Ford parts dept. again, to provide to the independent garage that replaced the driveshaft, to ensure that everything was done correctly, as per the Ford workshop procedure advised (even if Ford themselves didn't follow it)!

The driveshaft had to be replaced, after a tyre fitters jacked the car up to do a puncture repair and bust one of the tri-pode sections of the inner CV joint on it. I only found that out some time later, after trying to find out why I was getting vibrations when the car got over 50mph. By the time my independent garage pointed out the broken CV joint, it was too long afterwards to try to get anything out of the tyre fitter's towards the repair!

Cautionary tale on jacking up cars on uneven ground: The tyre fitter's had parked the car with the left hand side higher up a sideways incline and jacked up the rear left corner, to remove the wheel for a puncture repair. I think that higher side then over-extended the driveshaft on the diagonally opposite front right and broke the inner CV tri-pode joint on it! Ford TIS workshop procedures advise when removing the driveshaft from the wheel knuckle, etc., not to let the floating half-shaft drop by more than a certain angle (I can't remember how much, but not very much!), as the inner CV joint can be damaged! Well, I think that explained the damage caused by the way the tyre fitter's jacked the car up!

These days, after market replacement complete driveshafts are cheap enough to make more economic sense to replace complete, than for labour charges to dismantle an existing one, to replace individual components on it (inner or outer CV joints, intermediate bearing, or boots, etc.).

I hope this helps and if the driveshaft intermediate bearing does show metallic dust / filings around it, try replacing the restraining strap & nuts, to see if that changes or improves the noise you can hear. It'll be relatively cheap and simple to do yourself, if you have a jack and axle stands. If it does improve things, depending on how much you want to get rid of it completely, you could later think about replacing the entire driveshaft (and restraining strap and nuts again) to completely eliminate any remaining noise!

Thanks for this Mr Green Eyes, very thorough!

The noise is very quiet, barely noticeable, like a fly buzzing in another room level of volume

"Have you had that driveshaft out, to either replace the inner / outer boots or CV joints, or to give easier access to other things?"

No, I have had raised on a ramp and had my trusty local mechanic give it a once over whilst he was replacing the rear shocks and a wheel bearing. He drove it for a week and was totally happy with it. No advisories on any MOTs for anything engine/gearbox/locomotion related either so I'm fairly confident it's mechanically sound. I'm just being cautious though, as I am not a mechanic. The previous owner had lots of rust repair done and then Lanoguarded everything afterwards, which ironically resulted in an MOT fail as the inspector couldn't see what was what anymore. It did then pass with one advisory for a new brake line though, it's only done 50k miles!

 

[John Woodward]

I was hoping to find exactly someone like this, but have no idea what to google to find such a person!

As I'm in several classic car groups and attend lots of meets and shows, people know who to go to and recommend the people they've used. The guy I used had done the rear arches on a Metro GTa and a full mechanical and body restoration on a Daimler SP250, I recommended him to friend with rusty lower wings on his Caddilac, which has been done and my friend is very pleased with the work.

 

[Nicky]

... and now all that is left is some (hopefully) cosmetic rust over the rear arches. I've had various repair quotes (£450-£1500) but don't exactly have a money tree in my garden, I wondered if there's a solution to this I've not thought of yet?

I fixed mine back in 2019 for £50 and no rust ever came back.

I had rusting on the edges of both rear arches, so ground them back, used Vactan, and then filled them. I then tackled the real cause of that rusting which is inside the car where the inner and outer arches join.

Maybe because of the sharp angle there, this area seems to had been missed in waxing at the time of production. Certainly, I've now seen 4 Pumas with the same fault. I stripped out the rear seat, rear cards, etc. and flooded the inside of those arches with Vactan using a pipette - you will not get a jelly type convertor in there due to no access. 3 coats of that, allowing to dry between each coat. Next came Dinitrol cavity wax and 2 coats of that.

Back to the outside, rough sanding of filler down to 400 grit and 2 more coats of Vactan, which is also a primer. Masked up rear arch edges and spray a few coats of green that was roughly the right colour. The final step was to fit the rear arch trims that I bought from Germany for £36 and the job was done.

The trims are steel painted matt black and these could have been sprayed to match the car, but they look fine as they are. If you look at modern cars they are smothered in trim pieces all over the places, sometimes with massive ones on all 4 arches, so mine looks fine.

It's a pity that in the past people were only ever given the choice of £500 - £1,000 welding in new arches, huge amounts of filler to blend and then respray the whole rear quarters ..... because that resulted in thousands upon thousands of past Puma owners not doing a thing about their rear arches and the cars just rotted out.

It also has to be said, that the oft spouted 'Rust always comes back' from non-scientific car enthusiasts, has put off people even trying to fix their stuff and resulted in even more now dead Pumas.

Still, there you go - £50 - looks fine and rust hasn't come back in 4 years.