Antifreeze Problem

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jasper65

jasper65

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
141
Location
UK
Due to the bad weather in the area I havn't been able to use the puma, the only means of transport we could use was the Navara. I walked out to the Puma this morning and thankfully popped the bonnet and gave the Rad Hoses a squeeze! both are frozen virtually solid aswel as the resovoir which is also slushy ice.

To be honest I'm a bit shocked as I put two Litres of Antifreeze in the motor a couple of months back, for some reason its still frozen? for the last couple of night here in Norwich its hit around - 14, should the Antfreeze be able to deal with this or is there different grades?

I just thank my lucky stars I checked under the bonnet first! the only reason I checked then was after a prevouse disaster a good few years back invloving a XR3i.

Jasp
 
i had this issue and had to thaw mine out and have it drained and replaced. as all my coolant disappeared and to keep the car running we made the mistake of puttin in water and then it hit -10 overnight! so froze up
main problems people have is that anti freeze is not at the right ratio.
or that the two colours of antifreeze have been mixed and cancelled each other out?!
 
I think you're right Lisa! I mixed two different colors, there was pink already in there and like a pratt I put another colour in. the other thing I am worried about is it Cracking the engine block? not sure if anyone can fill me in on this but just read on the internet that it could crack the block?

Jasp
 
yeah never mix red or blue together! mine got refilled with red so least i know what i have to stick to now!
yeah i read that too and i got told on some models the water pump/motor is near the cambelt and trying to start can rip all teeth off cambelt (if frozen up) but said thats not the case for a 1.7.
guess the only thing you can do is let it thaw out if you can get it somewhere warm! and change the coolant yourself...plenty of guides on here....or trip to garage if you need the car desperately
 
This is the basic info, followed by a link to the rest of it:

The different colours of Ford Coolant/Antifreeze should not be mixed. If you are changing the colour, then the old product should be flushed out with water. Generally, flushing agents should not be used in old/high mileage engines, as they can loosen deposits and cause more problems.

The latest Coolant/Antifreeze recommended by Ford is:
Ford Purple Super Plus (this will show as "Pink" in the reservoir when diluted).
5 litres, Finis code 1336808, approx, £12.87 + VAT - Jan '08.
1 litre, Finis code 1336799, £4.28 (list) + VAT - Jan '08.

Coolant capacity (including heater) is 6 litres. Mix should be 50%/50%.
If just checking the strength, the minimum specific gravity @ 15C is 1.061 (40%). Try and stick to the 50%/50%, as the coolant has lubricating and anti-corrosion properties.

http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
cheers for the help people :eek:k:. I wouldn't say the Hoses are frozen solid but more like slushy ice! would it be fool hardy to try and start the car? or would this snap the Cambelt? I'm also worried after reading the Block could crack if its frozen?
 
i tried starting mine when mine went slushy and let it sit warming for 10/15 mins with lid off incase of air, but what was in there was just bubbling over and causing it to overflow!!! so personally from that exxperience i wouldnt.......someone else might know different though! and hopefully they will come along soon!
 
Happened to me last night. My rad and hoses on the lhs were frozen solid. Engine overheated. It was so frozen that so much so that after removing drain plug nothing happened. Got a fan heater outside and defrosted it all eventually water drained out. Refilled with around 3.5ltrs anti freeze and the rest water. So far so good. Block doesn't appear to have cracked and head gasket seems okay.....so far.
 
Further info on the change to the type of coolant used by Ford is in TSB 119/1998, from MY 1999 they changed over to Organic Additive Technology (OAT).
It lists the new coolant as Motorcraft Super Plus 2000 (Orange), I don't know if it can be mixed with the very latest Super Plus Premium, but they do have the same Ford specification number.

The Super Plus Premium is quoted as a 50%/50% mix protecting down to -37°C

TSB No. 119/1998
22/10/1998

Model: Escort, Fiesta, Focus, Ka, Mondeo, Puma, Transit: all 99 MY (build code WP) onwards.

Markets: All

Subject: Introduction of Organic Additive Technology (OAT) engine coolant.

This TSB gives details of a new engine coolant (Motorcraft Super Plus 2000) which has a useful life of 10 years or 240,000 km.
However, due to differing technologies involved, the old and new type coolants should not be mixed. This TSB details the actions to take should mixing occur. It also includes the availability in service for the new coolant.

Production Action
During the pre 99 MY shutdown (August 1998) the coolant fill machines and tanks of European Ford Manufacturing Plants have been converted to Motorcraft SUPER Plus 2000.

Service Instructions

Summary
Motorcraft SUPER Plus 2000 is a coolant concentrate composed of monoethylene glycol and Organic Additive Technology (OAT) corrosion inhibitors, and is ORANGE in colour. It does not contain silicates, nitrates, nitrites, borates, phosphates or amines; so that:
• Without silicates, silicate gel or "green goo" does not form.
• By eliminating phosphates, hard water scale is reduced.
• Without silicates, phosphates, nitrates, nitrites and borates, abrasive dissolved acids are greatly reduced thereby diminishing water pump seal failures.
• Without amines and nitrites, there is no potential formation of nitrosamines.

All this results in a considerably longer life span, whilst providing improved protection of all cooling system metals, including aluminium. Benefits over conventional silicate based coolants are:
• Improved water pump life due to reduced water pump seal wear.
• Fewer abrasive dissolved solids.
• Reduced hard water scale.
• Virtually no deterioration of heat transfer capacity during service life.
• Excellent protection against high temperature and pitting corrosion.
• No silicate gel formation during storage or use.
• Effective long-term corrosion protection for aluminium, brass, cast iron, steel, solder and copper alloys.
• Effective service life of 10 years or 240,000 km (150,000 miles).

Compatibility
In order that the full advantages of Motorcraft SUPER Plus 2000 be maximised, it should not be mixed with other coolant types.

If a vehicle's coolant system contains blue/green coolant then only coolant fluid meeting Ford specification ESDM-97B49-A (Motorcraft SUPER Plus 4) should be used for topping up or coolant system refill.

If a vehicle's coolant system contains orange coolant then only coolant meeting Ford specification WSS-M97B44-D (Motorcraft SUPER Plus 2000) should be used for topping up or coolant system refill.

Corrective Measures
If a cooling system initially filled with Motorcraft SUPER Plus 4 (blue/green) is inadvertently topped up with the new Motorcraft SUPER Plus 2000 (orange), the cooling system should be drained immediately, flushed with cold water and re-filled with fresh SUPER Plus 4.

Similarly, if a cooling system initially filled with Motorcraft SUPER Plus 2000 is topped up with conventional coolant, the cooling system should be drained immediately, flushed with cold water and re-filled with fresh SUPER Plus 2000.
 
no issues with my coolant at all in the -19 we had few nights back at all??

Not sure what the - degree it will go down to.

Bee always starts first turn of the key and off we go.
 
not so cold here today thankfully < -2 >. the hoses are still a bit crunchy as is the main resevoir! I'm still Gobsmacked as the fluid is Pink as can be yet it still froze.

My main concern after reading on the internet is the Ice expanding and cracking the block, has anyone ever heard of this happening? also would it be safe to fire the car up and get it defrosted so I can put some new Antifreeze in the system? or is there a chance of snapping the Cam belt?
 
As a frozen block thaws, amongst doing other things, it can crack the block or push out the core plugs, neither of which you want to happen.
Personally, I wouldn't attempt to start the engine. As an example, when a screen washer system freezes up, it will also freeze the washer pump and prevent it rotating. Should you continue to press the washer switch, you can either blow a fuse, or burn the motor out. Apply this thought to your engine and, for example, imagine the water pump frozen.

If you put 2 litres of coolant/antifreeze in your system a few months ago and, for example there was none already in it, you would only have approximately 33% mixture. Depending on what you used, at best, this should give protection down to approx. -18°C.
Details for typical ETHYLENE GLYCOL based mixes:
GLYCOL BY VOLUME
12.5% -4°C
17.0% -7°C
25.0% -12°C
32.5% -18°C
38.5% -23°C
44.0% -29°C
49.0% -34°C
50.0% -37°C (Ford Super Plus Premium Coolant/Antifreeze).
52.5% -40°C

You have to also consider that although you can have a particular ambient temperature, wind-chill can make this considerably lower.

If that hasn't sent you to sleep, then read this at bedtime, as I'm sure it will!
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/841/coolant-fundamentals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you get to the end without falling asleep, you will see why a 50%/50% mix of the correct coolant is important and how the additives protect/lubricate the system.
 
thanks for the help Yog! gleaning this sort of info definitely hasn't sent me to sleep.

I reckon its now just a case to allow it to thaw out before I turn it over! fingers crossed the block will be ok :eek:k:....
 
Finally got the puma up and running and thankfully all seems ok! I then decided to drain the system and replace the Antifreeze! I removed the drain plug bottom right from front of Rad and left it to drain, what I now find confuseing is once it drained and I topped up with Antifreeze I only managed to get around 4 Litres in the system before it was on Maximum.

Am I missing somthing here as I thought the system should be 6 Litres?
 
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