Puma 1400 Rally Build

[drmotorsport]

looking good, where did you get the rose jointed wishbones and track rods from?

 

[johnny h]

Andrew, thanks for the explanation, it's all clear now. On yours and Graeme's advice I'm going to fit softer springs.

Graeme, what neck of the woods are you from? snow? It's almost tropical in Bury.

DR sport.....got the wishbones and trackrod ends from Compbrake.com really happy with them.

 

[Andrew Hebron]

On yours and Graeme's advice I'm going to fit softer springs.

Oh blimey...

 

[mrbushrat]

I am up on county durham.

 

[joedeltahf]

interesting about the rear springs. I have standard shocks / spring on the rear will fiesta ones fit and be softer?

 

[johnny h]

interesting about the rear springs. I have standard shocks / spring on the rear will fiesta ones fit and be softer?

Sorry , I can't answer that but I would have thought that you would not want to go softer than standard.

The standard suspension is pretty good on the pumas from my experience. It was easy to promote lift off oversteer in my 1700... great fun!

 

[Andrew Hebron]

An update after my test session today on wet and bumpy concrete...my springs are WAY too hard at 40nmm / 228 lb/in on the fronts. Asking around a load of folks including S1600 Saxo, C2s, Corsa etc is that 180 lb/in is closer but am still researching...

 

[mrbushrat]

I am getting some springs made up to bumpy tarmac spec hopefully. I will let you know how I get on.

 

[Andrew Hebron]

I am getting some springs made up to bumpy tarmac spec hopefully. I will let you know how I get on.

What ratings front and rear?

 

[johnny h]

On yours and Graeme's advice I'm going to fit softer springs.

Oh blimey...

Oh no, my new springs have just arrived!

....after our discussion on here and speaking to GAZ, I went for 225 front and 145 rear, both with helper springs.

so do you think that these will still be too hard?

What made you think that your current setup was too hard? how did your car handle?

If it's too hard for tarmac, what are you going to use for gravel?

 

[mrbushrat]

On yours and Graeme's advice I'm going to fit softer springs.

Oh blimey...

Oh no, my new springs have just arrived!

....after our discussion on here and speaking to GAZ, I went for 225 front and 145 rear, both with helper springs.

so do you think that these will still be too hard?

What made you think that your current setup was too hard? how did your car handle?

If it's too hard for tarmac, what are you going to use for gravel?

I think what you have will be ok. I think it depends on what events you are ultimately doing. My 300f and 200r current set up is spot on for croft for Xmas stages and jack frost. But as both my cars are doing mull this year which is rough and bumpy I think I am going same as you rear and slightly softer on the front. How much did they cost from Gaz out of interest with the helper springs?

Graeme

 

[johnny h]

That's good to know Graeme.

My new springs have got to be better than my originals.

GAZ swapped them FOC as they were unused and they specified the originals and agreed that they weren't ideal.

 

[Andrew Hebron]

Johnny - definitely better and glad Gaz 'fessed up! Like I said earlier, I think we're all learning by doing on spring rates at the moment.

 

[Andrew Hebron]

I have news.

I have spoken with Proflex who developed the Puma 1400 Kit Car and Ka Championship suspension with Gywndaf Evans. The springs used were 40 N/mm (228 lb/ft), 300mm (12in) for the fronts and 17 N/mm (97 lb/ft), 340mm (13.5in) for the rears. With Pumas probably a little heavier at the rear, he reckons 20 N/mm (114 lb/ft) or similar is about right.

These were the control springs for the Championships so were used for tarmac and gravel. For super-smooth tarmac you could probably go a little firmer and a little softer for gravel as long as your dampers have enough travel.

The problem I have had on the fronts has been diagnosed to a too short spring so it was sitting on the bumpstops. It gets the car to standard ride height but with the dampers I have, there is not enough travel so I need 12in springs which is why rally Pumas often look quite high.

 

[johnny h]

Thats great info Andrew. It confirms that we are all in the right area.

what ride height do you intend to run for tarmac?

Graeme, what height will you be running?

I have started to put the car back together with the new springs but the fronts have been difficult as I have had to compress the helper springs to get the shock fitted.

Whilst the car was on axle stands I fitted longer wheel studs so that the wheels are more secure, but the fronts were a pain as I had to get the bearings pressed out to fit the new studs.

 

[Andrew Hebron]

I have started to put the car back together with the new springs but the fronts have been difficult as I have had to compress the helper springs to get the shock fitted.

What rate are the helpers? I'm just using feeble ones @ 4 lb/in as they don't need to do much, so they compress easily.

As far as ride height goes...very high. Turns out I need 12" springs to keep off the bumpstops so it's about 37mm above standard FRP height even with the spring platforms wound right down. It makes any decision simple. Proflex reckon the ride height is just the price Pumas paid for the necessary damper travel for broken concrete / gravel.

 

[johnny h]

Not knowing what the frp ride height is, what is your total height and do you run it with equal front and rear height?

 

[Andrew Hebron]

here you are: http://workshop-manuals.com/ford/ra...on_system_general_information/specifications/

But I have different coilovers with different measurements / clearances so you'll probably have to do some maths & measurements of your own.

 

[joedeltahf]

i have a full (4) set of hubs with lenghtened studs and 20mm hub centric spacers if you are interested, they are still on the car but i hope to have them off over the coming weeks.

 

[phil185]

Interesting reading about the ride height, when I got our suspension from avo to get it to a reasonable height it was on the bumpstops. Called Avo and Nigel sent out a set of shortened fronts that are a lot better, as it's a Tarmac car it will never need the ride height of the others.

On another note, I have a friend that is looking at going from 17" to 15" wheels, he currently has a load of speedlines (some still have the ford Motorsport stickers on from use in the jwrc). I'm running 15"s so have no use for them, would any of you be interested?

Phil