replacement puma engines.....ideas?

[jacko]

the 1.7 zetec se i believe was made by yamaha. they made there batch a long time ago and will not make any more. ford has sold all there stock. you cant even get bearing shells or get the nikasil relined so.....

what happens when we all hit 200k miles and they start going bang?

theyre not designed to be rebuilt, the puma is a low volume car so donor cars will disappear really quickly.......

only 'quick' solution i can see is to use 1.6 blocks from fiestas as there are loads of them and with steel liners they might be rebuildable.
1.6 fezza block with 1.7 vct head and a small remap of ecu to reduce the 1.7 fuelling to 1.6 by someone like tremona?

im only starting the ideas off early just so we can think of best solutions.

rpoc accused me of scare mongering and being 'nasty'!!!!!!!! technically incompetant, socially ignorant tw@ts!

obviously some will do galactic mileage but others that have been 'stressed' (ie 'driven properly!, nos'd etc) will need it sooner.....

had a good chat with northampton motorsport over a duratec engine.....its as if ford stole yamahas design and added a chain for the cam timing......looks very similar to the 'se' so its an option. be nice to find out if the manifolds and mounts bolt straight on!

 

[Dal]

Hmm, I've been wondering this for a while now - perhaps it comes when you're already on your second engine after the 1st one went pop. £2500+vat got the short (bottom) 1,7 engine if they had one when I enquired last at Ford.

A 1.6 is the logical replacement that wouldn't be that much of a stress to get it working. Something bigger and better would be much more fun though.

 

[jacko]

yep! my experience of the bc/ib5 wont take it tho. however northampton motorsport has yet to see an ib5 go bang......reckon ford might have sorted it.....(the bc was quite famously weak)

 

[warrenpenalver]

The iB5 is strong enough for the average puma no problem. Also there are planty of upgrades available for the iB5 to enable it to take considerably more power anyway so thats solvable. The FRP box in my old puma took a shed load of abuse including probably several hundred "launches" when it had the 200bhp engine just because it was fun and i could!!

 

[mort666]

you cant even get bearing shells or get the nikasil relined so.....

I don't know which companies etc. you have contacted about this but I thought I'd put this up as this gets talked about a lot on the bike owners club. The 1400 bike engine has nikasil plated bores and a couple of the guys have gone for 1550cc conversions which really needs the bores re-plating (sleeves can be used but there are downsides to this which you probably know about already).

a place in the US has been listed as a company which can do nikasil re-plating, but also these two places too:

http://www.langcourt.com/index.htm

http://motrac-racing.com/cylinder-replating.html#cylinder

the second is a bike place so may not handle car engines (depending on who actually does the work), but the first may be suitable?

Of course I realise you may have looked at and already dismissed them already for whatever reason, but it looks like places offer the service.

I'm sure the motrac place quoted one guy approximately 450 euros to over-bore and re-plate the bike engine block.

hope it helps

 

[jacko]

cool, cheers. only managed to find one place a while back & they never got back to me......! go kart engines are the same.

it must be do-able by someone..... but without having piston rings & bearing shells theres no point.

i have heard a little bird say vtec shells can be modded to fit.....?

 

[FlashBastd]

I thought the 1.7 could be bored and steel lined, a la Puma Build's conversion?

Failing that, how big of a job would it be to bore a 1.6 to 1.7, to take the 1.7 internals?

As an aside, given the low value of the base Puma, there will probably be an increasing number being written off for only minor damage, so I wouldn't have thought there would be a huge issue with scarcity for the remaining cars that people are willing to invest in?

Regarding the Duratec HE engine, PB, PS, OC, have dropped this engine into a Fiesta Mk4/5/Puma, but I don't think any of the ancillaries are the same. IIRC it is actually basically a Mazda engine, that Ford didn't have a huge amount to do with the development of. It has a lot of benefits, same way around, readily avaiable, light weight, upto 2.3 litres standard displacement, but I believe actually fitting it is a bit complex from a wiring point of view.

 

[DradusContact]

There is an XR3I or something in this months Fast Ford with an Evo engine, if youve got the money you can almost stick anything in it i reckon!

 

[mort666]

I know on the bike engine the steel liners method is not considered to be the best solution for the following reasons:

wall thickness between cylinders after an overbore with liners due to having to take the cylinder bore even bigger than you would to allow the liners to fit

Steel liners will conduct heat away from the cylinders at a different rater to plated aluminium. I don't think anyone has proven that this is a problem at all, just people's concerns.

these two issues may not effect a car engine application though.

please also note that the comments re from other people on the forums, not my own personal views/experience. The big bore issue does seem to be discussed alot though

 

[red]

I've looked at the reline option recently.

The problem is that the 1.7 engine is already bored from the 1.4 block from memory and this has left very little material to attach steel liners to. Not to mention the possibility of warping due to the heat used in the process.

I didn't look into a reline with Nikasil though.

 

[souljacker]

I was reading through this & searched around the 'tinternet & found this ..... not sure if it would be cost effective they replate nikasil cylinders

http://www.langcourt.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jacko]

cool, cheers. still need rings & shells tho.....theyv gotta be somewhere cos how did they build the rally engines....???!

 

[hotrodspike]

You could try Brineton Engineering in Walsall, they make parts for/rebuild vintage Bugattis, Alfas and Bentleys etc. If they don't do them they might know who does, I worked there for a few weeks in the 80's and the stuff they did was superb, (the only retro fit parts recognised by Bugatti iirc). They regrind cranks and rebore blocks so they must get their shells and rings from somewhere.

Brineton Engineering Co Ltd.,
Alma Street,
Walsall,
West Midlands
WS2 8JQ

Phone 01922 620070/614605
Fax 01922 722875

 

[PumaJay]

im going down the 2.0 route, using a duratec from a focus st170, what could be better?? 170bhp straight away, 6 speed gear box and endless tuning possibilities!

theres plenty of scope from what engine to put in your puma if and when you have to cross that bridge but your by no means limited, with time money and a little ambition anything can be made to fit.

id like to see a V6 4x4 puma tho... that would be something pretty awesome! or maybe even a RWD drive convesion??

 

[Dal]

You might want to try the Fiesta ST150 engine rather than the Focus ST170 one, as the ST150 one is all alloy (the ST170 has a cast iron block) so might suit the handling better in a Puma as it's lighter. And it's chain driven rather than belt.

Just a thought.

 

[jacko]

wont fit a four pot engine and a 6 speed box......there isnt the room between chassis legs.....bummer!

unless your talking about the ib5 6 speed your mates working on.....!!!

 

[FlashBastd]

Also ST170 engine is a Duratec in name only. It is actually a Zetec-E (as fitted to Escort, Fiesta Mk3, Mondeo Mk1&2, Focus Mk1, etc. but with variable cam timing and a variable length inlet.

Duratec HE (as per Mondeo Mk3, Fiesta ST, Focus Mk2, etc.) is a better bet, not only because it is lighter, but also because the inlet and exhaust are the same way around as standard, plus there are loads of modifying options, superchargers, Cosworth inlet manifold, etc. available for it.

 

[haGGard]

im going down the 2.0 route, using a duratec from a focus st170, what could be better??

Same here when the time comes. Why put a cack 1.6 in it? For around the same efforts just plop a 2.0 in there.

 

[FlashBastd]

The 1.6 would be very easy though as it is fitted to the Puma already, and is closely related to the 1.7. The 2.0 is a completely different engine.

 

[warrenpenalver]

cool, cheers. still need rings & shells tho.....theyv gotta be somewhere cos how did they build the rally engines....???!

The rally engines were originally a 1.7 with different pistons, crank and rods so may well have not used the standard ford rings and shells anyway.

Have you tried contacting swindon racing engines??? they did all the engine tuning on behalf of ford.