FRP map without cams?

General discussion area relating to the Ford Puma, any off topic or threads that are deemed chat/waffle will be moved to the relevant areas! Please keep ON TOPIC at all times.

Moderator: Moderators

Tommy_Puma
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm
Model: 1.7

FRP map without cams?

Post by Tommy_Puma » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:54 am

Use my puma as my daily but also thinking of using it as a track car on the side, I took it round silverstone at the weekend and it held up really well, just lacking in power on the straights.

Current mods include:
4-2-1 manifold with sports cat (probably now a decat) and back box
Ramair induction kit
TAPE ECU
Mondeo V6 Brakes
Polybushed rear beam
Rear axle spacers
Lowered on some form of springs and aftermarket shocks.

The handling to me seems spot on. Maybe some new tyres may help.

But my thoughts for more power are struggling. Would an FRP remap as my car is now make much difference?
Do you NEED FRP camshafts?
Do you NEED FRP inlet?

What sort of figures is my car now and what to expect down these routes?
0 x

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:03 pm

I had 4;2;1; piper manifold and frp remap before i fitted cams for a while and found it to be a bit more torquey..
But when I fitted the frp cams that was the icing on the cake....

But have since fitted a FRP gearbox aswel and I should of done that before any engine mods were done.
Personally I think the FRP gearbox is the best mod to do as your always in the power and acceleration is something else compared to std box..

The frp intake will give you more power at the top end of the rev range but who wants to pay 1000 pound for that...

Also keep in mind maybe uni chip instead of frp remap if your going to fit cams.The uni chip can be remapped to suit what ever engine mods you make in the future.
0 x

jimfrp88
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:00 pm
Model: Thunder

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by jimfrp88 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:05 pm

I have the frp map on mine.
Has a 4-2-1 manifold, sports cat and frp airbox.
Could tell the difference straight away in 1st and 2nd as the limiter has been removed. Also increased the rev limiter slightly.
I also agree with the previous comment that it has slightly more torque.
0 x

User avatar
Milkie
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:20 am
Model: 1.7
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Milkie » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:31 pm

Bit of a thread Hi-Jack... Where do you get the FRP map from? I've seen it for a ridiculous £250 which seems extremely expensive.
0 x

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:52 pm

Milkie wrote:Bit of a thread Hi-Jack... Where do you get the FRP map from? I've seen it for a ridiculous £250 which seems extremely expensive.
http://www.pumaspeed.com/car-Puma-17_2_14.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0 x

Tommy_Puma
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Tommy_Puma » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:07 am

So the map does help! Thats the question i was wondering, not wanting to spend a lot on the puma really as its only my daily and maybe occasional track car. Will look into whether i can get a map squirted onto my ecu then off a mate who does remaps. Cheers
0 x

User avatar
trublustu
Guru!
Guru!
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Model: Other
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by trublustu » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:04 pm

Question - does FRP map make car faster

Answer --- DEFINITELY

I took a frp mapped TAPE to Oulton earlier this year and fitted it at lunch.
Replacing a `Bluefinned` DIVE ecu...

It transformed the car taking several seconds off my lap times..
0 x
Dedicated Track Car Progress Thread
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?t=26160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
YouTube track sessions and `incidents`
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC5QLi ... 4GCrMVmmlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trackheads facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517158591786800/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:19 pm

trublustu wrote:Question - does FRP map make car faster

Answer --- DEFINITELY

I took a frp mapped TAPE to Oulton earlier this year and fitted it at lunch.
Replacing a `Bluefinned` DIVE ecu...

It transformed the car taking several seconds off my lap times..
Was it the extra rpm(limiter) and No torque limiter in 1st and 2nd that helped with the lap time do you think? Or was it the small bit of extra midrange torque you get out of it without frp cams?
Just curious cause I never had it on the track and found it nice and punchy but until i put in the cams could really notice the benefit..
0 x

User avatar
trublustu
Guru!
Guru!
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Model: Other
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by trublustu » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:34 pm

It`s not just the revs. That just makes the car 200% more drivable (I was forever bouncing off the rev limiter in 4th) though it must have helped.

It did have more `go` (really noticeable)

The exhaust note changes dramatically too.
Much deeper and rawer (is rawer a word? meaning more raw.)
And with it comes the best bit. They crackle like f*** on the overrun, it sounds better than any omex pop box!!

It`s possibly down to the ignition timing and fuelling. The FRP cams need setting a couple of degrees out and I have since found and fitted a set. It (almost) eliminates the crackle (and makes the car as fast again)

If all the FRP bits are fitted It gives about 30 bhp
Each component of the frp kit probably gives 4-5 bhp. With the big power coming only if they are all working in unison.

All my car needs is the inlet and its there. I recon (but not rolling roaded yet) 140bhp if I`m lucky.
I just gotta decide if 13 more bhp is worth £600+
0 x
Dedicated Track Car Progress Thread
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?t=26160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
YouTube track sessions and `incidents`
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC5QLi ... 4GCrMVmmlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trackheads facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517158591786800/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:12 pm

trublustu wrote:It`s not just the revs. That just makes the car 200% more drivable (I was forever bouncing off the rev limiter in 4th) though it must have helped.

It did have more `go` (really noticeable)

The exhaust note changes dramatically too.
Much deeper and rawer (is rawer a word? meaning more raw.)
And with it comes the best bit. They crackle like f*** on the overrun, it sounds better than any omex pop box!!

It`s possibly down to the ignition timing and fuelling. The FRP cams need setting a couple of degrees out and I have since found and fitted a set. It (almost) eliminates the crackle (and makes the car as fast again)

If all the FRP bits are fitted It gives about 30 bhp
Each component of the frp kit probably gives 4-5 bhp. With the big power coming only if they are all working in unison.

All my car needs is the inlet and its there. I recon (but not rolling roaded yet) 140bhp if I`m lucky.
I just gotta decide if 13 more bhp is worth £600+
I have a similar set up to yourself.. Puma speed FRP remap,frp cams,piper full frp replica exhaust. But recently got my hands on a mondeo 2ltr TB ported by lms and have had puma linkages fitted...Also got some std inlet runners ported out and inlet bored out to suit the larger TB.. then in the shop for a uni chip and map to suit... Should be interesting to see the out come.... also just fitted a frp gearbox which I absolutely adore.. The gear box just tuned it into a hoodlum...:)
0 x

User avatar
Brian'
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 682
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 6:24 pm
Model: Turbo
Location: Naaldwijk, The Netherlands

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Brian' » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:15 pm

Dwighet wrote: also just fitted a frp gearbox which I absolutely adore.. The gear box just tuned it into a hoodlum...:)
Does a frp gearbox have different gear settings or is it all about the LSD?
0 x

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:25 pm

Gear settings... Final drive goes from 3.8 std to 4.2...
LSD frp gear box is a hard find..
The frp gear box accelerates a lot better than std.. But it has a down fall... 120kmph 4000rpm in 5th so if you do a lot of motorway driving your better off sticking to the speed limit...

But get it in the twisty mountain roads and its great craic..
0 x

User avatar
trublustu
Guru!
Guru!
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Model: Other
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by trublustu » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:30 pm

The FRP box has exactly the same ratios as a standard 1.7. But has a lower ratio final drive (from the 1.6) to cope with the bigger wheels.
On 15`s it`d go like sh** off a shovel...

It also had shot peened 1st and 2nd gears
Possibly to cope with lack of traction control?

Not all were LSD. I would trade a limb for a Quaiffe mind you.
0 x
Dedicated Track Car Progress Thread
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?t=26160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
YouTube track sessions and `incidents`
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC5QLi ... 4GCrMVmmlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trackheads facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517158591786800/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:39 pm

trublustu wrote:The FRP box has exactly the same ratios as a standard 1.7. But has a lower ratio final drive (from the 1.6) to cope with the bigger wheels.
On 15`s its go like sh** off a shovel...

It also had shot peened 1st and 2nd gears
Possibly to cope with lack of traction control?

Not all were LSD. I would trade a limb for a Quaiffe mind you.
Personally i think a single spinner frp diff is grand until maybe 200 hp then the lsd would be warranted. Mind you I havnt driven a puma with a lsd before so I only know what I know..
Also I dont do track days but have full intentions of doing Mondello next year...Thats the only track we have here in Southern Ireland..
0 x

User avatar
trublustu
Guru!
Guru!
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Model: Other
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by trublustu » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:08 pm

Mine lightened in the extreme and only goes on track.
Even running semislicks at low pressures I rip up the tyres coming out of all but the faster corners (no t/c)

I`d like to do a road trip to Mondello some day. Taking in Kirkistown while I`m at it. :-)
0 x
Dedicated Track Car Progress Thread
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?t=26160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
YouTube track sessions and `incidents`
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC5QLi ... 4GCrMVmmlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trackheads facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517158591786800/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
trublustu
Guru!
Guru!
Posts: 1577
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Model: Other
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by trublustu » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:18 pm

Here`s the cars` build thread...

http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=26160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0 x
Dedicated Track Car Progress Thread
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?t=26160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
YouTube track sessions and `incidents`
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC5QLi ... 4GCrMVmmlQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trackheads facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517158591786800/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tommy_Puma
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Tommy_Puma » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:58 am

Been offered a DIVE ecu with the pumaspeed map on it. But that would then throw up the MIL light because it would read the second lambda sensor... Awaiting a reply from my mates supplier to see whether he can get the FRP standard mape on my TAPE ECU... Dont fancy spending £250 on a map for my second car lol
0 x

jimfrp88
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:00 pm
Model: Thunder

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by jimfrp88 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:27 am

Personally I'd stick with the TAPE ecu.. They're the best all rounder and the easiest to work with. Especially if you've modified your exhaust system.
0 x

Tommy_Puma
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Tommy_Puma » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:32 pm

jimfrp88 wrote:Personally I'd stick with the TAPE ecu.. They're the best all rounder and the easiest to work with. Especially if you've modified your exhaust system.
Yeah will suit my exhaust a lot better!

Next question... I have a cam locking tool which says it fits 1.7 pumas. Will i be able to use this to fit frp cams?
0 x

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:35 pm

No. You need a frp cam tool. Pm me if you want a loan of one.
0 x

Tommy_Puma
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Tommy_Puma » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:53 pm

Dwighet wrote:No. You need a frp cam tool. Pm me if you want a loan of one.
Ah right so its not quite the same? Yeah i'll keep you in mind dude then cheers! Currently house hunting at the moment so who knows when i'll get round to it. How much do you charge?
0 x

Dwighet
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:02 am
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Dwighet » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:59 pm

No charge mate. Just send it back to me when your done. Id be sound like that. :)
0 x

User avatar
JAC
Project Regular
Project Regular
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:58 pm
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by JAC » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:22 pm

A slight derail here, but...

Is a remap worth while (or just silly) on a stock 1.7?

The issue is, that here in Spain, everything must be declared and aproved by the ITV (equivalent of MOT). For it to be approved, you need to present documentation of the part, a certificate saying it is valid for your car and/or a study and project made by an engineer, and finally a certificate from a garage saying they installed it and that it is safe.

I am actually lucky in part, because my brother is an engineer, but we still have to pay the taxes etc. which can be between 300 and 700 euros, depending on what you are "legalizing". So, the cheapest way is to collect the parts you plan on changing, then get them all fitted and "legalized" at the same time.

Obviously, there are certain things that are not detected easily (such as an engine remap) and can be done over time, and then presented on the paperwork at the same time as all the rest.

On a lot of cars, I have fitted universal chips, and as I have fitted other parts, remapped the engine to find the "sweet spot".

Is this something that is possible on a Puma 1.7?

Thanks as always.
0 x

User avatar
moondustka
Project Petrol Head!
Project Petrol Head!
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:49 pm
Model: Turbo
Location: Surrey

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by moondustka » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:06 pm

Wow, my car would be a near impossibility in Spain - I never knew it was that difficult, Spaniard's seem so lax on some things (health and safety on construction sites for one! Which is great because health and safety has gone mad here)

But then I've always thought it mad that I can get away with a normal MOT even though I've made a lot myself and all the parts have never been tested. Although (touch wood) none have broken either.

Anyway to bring this back on topic, Tommy, you are talking about Silverstone where some of the really high powered cars hit 140-150 down the old pit straight. I mean it is a big and fast track. The puma with standardish power is more suited to a track like Brands Hatch.

The kind of money you guys are talking about seems bonkers to me - cheaper to put a different engine in for the power increase you can get.
0 x

Tommy_Puma
Adolescent
Adolescent
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:58 pm
Model: 1.7

Re: FRP map without cams?

Post by Tommy_Puma » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:58 am

Getting puma TAPE ECU mapped next month :grin: bodywork isnt the best but MOT isnt due till May but since looking around you can get less rusty pumas than mine for £700 so the TAPE ECU and other mods can be swapped over without a problem if need be. So I see the map being an investment as i can install it into any puma.
0 x

Post Reply

Return to “Puma Area”