Are 9 spoke wheels weak? ...and Props stronger?

[-B-]

In my marathon search to purchase a Puma, I’m finding an alarming number of MOT advisories that read thus:

Nearside Inner Front Road wheel with a slightly distorted bead rim (4.2.A.1a)
Offside Inner Front Road wheel with a slightly distorted bead rim (4.2.A.1a)
Nearside Inner Rear Road wheel with a slightly distorted bead rim (4.2.A.1a)
Offside Inner Rear Road wheel with a slightly distorted bead rim (4.2.A.1a)

That was from just one car with 9 spokes ^

I haven’t made a log of every 4.2.A.1a advisory I’ve found, but I’m pretty sure these have been mostly the 9 spoke design, if not exclusively.

I have finally found a Puma I want to buy. Comes with one 9 spoke with that advisory, but do I swap it for another 9 spoke, or go with the Props, which might be stronger? I’ve found a good set (4) of Props for £75. Yeah, I’m going to incur tyre changing charges as well, but it needs 2 new tyres anyway. Plus the Props suit the Puma better, IMHO. Plus I can sell on the 3 good 9 spokes.

 

[Qwertben]

it sounds like you have already made your mind up

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

IMHO propellors look WAY better....

 

[fairlight]

I'm not keen on the props, I think the zetec s type standard on a thunder of the f1 split rim look best, but as ever beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Do bear in mind there are clearance issues with the props if you plan a big brake conversion. Zetec s type and f1 split rim clear ok

 

[-B-]

it sounds like you have already made your mind up

Yes, about the replacements maybe, but this thread is more about whether there’s a problem with the 9 spokes, that we should know about.

 

[quest63]

It sounds like your obsessing completely unneccessarily about a very minor issue.

How long has this marathon Puma search gone on for exactly?

I dont know what year of car your buying but I would not put props on a newer car thats supposed to have 9 spokes.

 

[tuonokid]

It's not just the Puma 9 spokes that have problems Mk6 Fiesta Zetec 5 spokes are weak as well. I think it's because modern Ford alloys have so much insett rather than offsett as they used to do so that rather than the spokes being in the middle of the wheel and effectively supporting both sides of the rim they leave the inside of the rim unsupported and prone to buckling. I think you're right in asking about strength in wheels but they may be all as bad as each other. I agree with quest63 in not putting props on a newer car so the answer may be to look for some forged alloys rather than cast ones or move to somewhere without potholes ;-)

 

[Puma Babe]

I live in Sheffield where the roads alternate between speed bumps and potholes; I've never had an advisory on my 9 spokes so they can't be that weak

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I think it's because modern Ford alloys

This might be a good opportunity to add that F1 style wheels were produced by Borbet. Focus Mk2 alloys (aka snowflake design, 16" replica of 18" ST wheels) are produced by Ronal.
I don/t konw who did the fan wheels or the 9 spokes, but I think it is fair to imagine that they were done outside, by someone else, not Ford himself......

 

[MISTER G]

I work for a Ford dealer and I can tell you we see plenty of cars with those advisories sadly. Very common for any wheel to end up with flat spots die to pot holes obliterating cars. We had a Laguna come in with the struts having gone through the bonnet!

 

[Ian G]

In my experience it affects all wheels regardless of design.

Very rare I'll get a complete set from one car. Over half the wheels I get in go for scrap.

Road condition and speed bumps are the major cause.

 

[-B-]

Well a few weeks back this happened to the right front:


Left me with a flat tyre in torrential rain. Wheel won’t now hold air. As I previously mentioned, there was an advisory on the left front, before I purchased this car, and I wanted to check that the left and right wheels hadn’t been swapped, between that MOT, and me purchasing the car, so I checked the left. I was expecting one dent, but there were 2.



Yes, I did hit a few potholes, but nothing my old Nissan wheels wouldn’t have laughed at and carried on rolling. There are so many more potholes on the roads these days, and plenty of rain water to disguise them as puddles – that’s my excuse.

So some people think there’s nothing sub-standard about the strength of these wheels, but one thing I’m 100% sure about: my old Nissan 14/15” wheels (admittedly with slightly more air protecting them, 195/55 v 195/50) would have laughed at those pothole hits.

So now looking for 2 Propellor wheels, preferably with good tyres. Might consider 9 spokes at the right price, but I've lost my confidence in the 9-spokes. Can't afford aft/mkt forged.

 

[-B-]

Just to add: tyre pressures were all correct at the time of the hit, and suspension seems to be working fine.

 

[Ian G]

I've got Props and 9 spokes at £40ea with a good tyre.

Postage is £10 for a single or £15 the pair. Or if you're close I'll give you £5ea for the old ones if you bring them in.

 

[-B-]

Yesterday I managed to get another flat! This time the left front. Stranded me half a mile from home, because I still have the spare on the front right. Nothing had penetrated the tyre, so it was those two dings, letting air escape, that caused it, again :x I had few options at the time, so just drove it home with a flat tyre at 10mph. I planned to replace the wheel anyway, but I had to sacrifice the tyre, but that's just a budget tyre with very uneven wear.

When I got home and took the wheel off, to see what had caused the flat, the wheel was about as round as a 20p coin. I’m not going to judge a wheels strength, when I’ve just mistreated it, but again, I’m 100% sure my old Nissan wheels would have survived that half mile.

Do bear in mind there are clearance issues with the props if you plan a big brake conversion. Zetec s type and f1 split rim clear ok

So are you suggesting there's more clearance on the 9 spokes, versus Props? From one side of the wheel barrel to the other? (rather than the clearance to the spokes?). That might suggest there's more metal built into the 'barrel' of the wheel. From what I've learned, the Props are maybe 0.4kg heavier than the 9-spokes. And it's the barrel of the wheel that's failed on mine.

I've got Props and 9 spokes at £40ea with a good tyre.

Postage is £10 for a single or £15 the pair. Or if you're close I'll give you £5ea for the old ones if you bring them in.

So in your experience Props and 9 spokes are about as bad as each other? I picked up a Ford steelie to get me out of trouble, yesterday, got me wondering whether steel wheels might be stronger. The one I picked up is the wrong offset though, at 52.5mm, but luckily it’s not fouling anything. I'm reluctant to invest in Props if they’re no stronger.

 

[-B-]

I guess the answer is, to have a stash of spare wheels sat in my garage.

 

[grayfox]

sure steels are stronger, is there a particular bad road you have to travel down when leaving the house/returning home? Its definitely weird the amount of problems your having. I ran 9-spokes for 5 years without any issues, swap to forged alloy now though.

 

[uxter]

I can vouch that the props are much heavier than the 9 spokes, but much lighter than the steel wheels, they weigh a ton!
that mass my well be stronger but then you put more stress on your suspension, steel wheels can often have the dents beaten out of course!