Car wont start

[danielz000]

Hi guys,

Trying to get my Puma back on the road after 6 months of sitting idle...

I'm pretty sure that the battery is dead and needs replacing but after fully charging it on a trickle charger im fairly confident I got enough power into it to at least get one start out of the energy. I assume this as I got a fairly long turn over out of the car the afterwards and also was unable to start the car with a jump pack.

Anyway, i called the AA (ended up with an independent) and he diagnosed a fault fuel pump... Now obviously i dont particularly want to be pulling the tank out and replacing the pump if I don't have to... So here's a few questions and then the rub...

1) The mechanic said there's no fuel at the engine. I have a feeling he checked the brown feed after saying the white is the return... Can anyone confirm which is the feed and which is the return?

2) When the ignitition is switched on (engine not started) should there ALWAYS be a whirring noise from the fuel pump priming? If i was to switch the ignition on once, let it prime, then switch it off and on again immediately after would the engine still try to prime a second time?

3) Is the whirring noise always the fuel pump? Is there anything else that could make that noise when turning the ignition on?

4) Assuming i can find find the fuel feed to the engine, would it be sensible/suitable for me to disconnect this and stick it in a bottle to see if i get fuel when switching the ignition on? I'll need to diagnose this on my own so can't be in two places at once.

5) Would it be sensible to disconnect my battery and use some electrical wire to make a direct connection to the pump? Where would the best place be to make this connection? The reason i'm thinking to disconnect the battery completely is because im also thinking of trying to run the pump as usual and then in reverse to try and free anything that might be blocking the lines.

6) I've had a look at fuel pumps online and can see the sender float/unit and what i assume is the pump but on the bottom of the pump the picture all see to have a strange weaved bag connected to them. Is this a first stage/large filter of some sort? If so, could it be cleared in position any way?

7) Is the fuel filter located somewhere underneith the center of the car? Is is easily accessible and would this be a better place to try and check for fuel from or maybe even suck fuel up from if i can run the pump in reverse?

And the rub... Basically, I'm pretty sure the pump is running or trying to run as it makes a noise (i think occasionally) when the ignition is switched on. I assume this is the pump doing it's thing but I'm not certain. As I explained above I'm hoping that if there is a blockage I can clear it with the pump in position. Also, the last time I ran the car I accidentally left it idling over night... Any thoughts on this?

Cheers in advance for any help or suggestions guys.

Dan

 

[red]

1) I could stand corrected but I think the white one is the feed, it's been mentioned on here for draining the fuel tank here:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?p=315684#p315684

2) Not sure, definitely the first time but whether there's then a delay before doing it again I don't know.

3) Typically it's the pump you can hear.

4) See the link in #1

5) Pass

6) Pass but unlikely.

7) Yes underneath, see here:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?t=56

Good luck.

 

[danielz000]

Cheers Red! I never came across that link when i searched!

If there's any takers on questions 5/6 please fire away!

 

[danielz000]

Additionally, on that link it says about the middle pin on the fuel cut of switch, can anyone confirm what the other two wires are? is one for the sender and one an earth?

Cheers,

Dan

 

[danielz000]

For future reference...

The 5 pin plug on the fuel pump unit has a blank pin in it (the middle one on the row of 3). The other two on this row are a fuel pump live and a ground which grounds the entire unit. The other two pins are for the fuel level.

The pump does have a pick up filter attached to the bottom of it.

I'm still not sure if it's possible to run the pump in reverse though and/or how safe this might be.

 

[Ian G]

1) White is feed although you'll get fuel out of the rail if you disconnect the red.

2) Yes, prime on each ignition on.

3) Typically no

4) Yes, white pipe off the rail and in to a bottle, you'll see it fill or not.

5) No - waste of time - put battery live to the middle pin of the grey plug on the fuel cut off (unplug it). Same outcome and no splicing in to the loom under the seat.

6) Yes but that isn't the problem

7) See that other thread and no, you can't run it backwards. New filter won't harm it.

The rub - do steps 4 and 5 to know for sure. Sounds highly likely a failed pump and you need the tank off to change it. They don't like being sat for two months never mind six. Three different pumps you'll need the age of the car to get the right one, reg number for a VIN lookup or last 7 digits of the VIN are enough to identify. Reg date or letter not reliable enough

Grey plug on the fuel cut off there is only one other pin which is the supply that the cut off breaks in to, don't touch that one. Other pin is vacant.

 

[danielz000]

Cheers Ian! The pump pick up filter was pretty clean so you're right, it's not the problem.

I did hear a buzzing noise but couldn't get fuel into a bottle so I'm guessing the pump was on it's way out. Strangely, when I removed the tank and pump and connected it directly to the battery it did run, but I have no idea if it was running properly and didn't want to be creating sparks near petrol.

I've actually ordered a replacement pump motor rather than an entire unit. It was onlt £22. Hopefully it will do the trick. If not I guess I'm a bit stuck as it doesn't seem worth spending so much money on an old car

Cheers,

Dan