Engine options

[Waterboard]

As we all know the 1.7 engine is considered disposable and the lack of parts lends itself to a motor that was not meant to be rebuilt.
As it’s not like say, a 711M cross flow where there’s everything still possible, the 1.7 engine can only exist for so long.
Therefore, what’s the favoured replacement?
I was thinking the ST150 motor looks about right but no real idea ????

 

[st220kyle]

1.6L ecoboost

 

[red]

I'd be looking at the ecoboost as an option too, no idea how easy it'd be though

 

[John Woodward]

I'd be very wary about fitting an Ecoboost.In the motor trade the Ecoboost is known as the Ecobang, apparently the book time for a cambelt change is 13.5 hours and a friend was quoted £1800 + vat to replace the belts by a Ford main dealer.They have a much higher failure rate than the Sigma engines. A local respected Ford service dealer reckons that the change about 10 a year, he dreaded to think how many main dealers change a year.

 

[red]

I thought they were ecoboom which is a reason I was put off of buying a later Focus, but I'm sure most are fine

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Perhaps unpopular opinion, but K20A2 would be great in puma...

 

[red]

That'd be fun but possibly harder to achieve?

 

[Waterboard]

Yeah, Ecoboom!
Go near it with a decent map and it’s solis the bed.
The liners, block config and head seem to lunch themselves. Weak engine with mad heat and cooling system issues.
Avoid like the skanky woman down the pub, unless desperate….

 

[RICHARD MANSFIELD2]

Hi.
I have often thought about this.

It is not just the engine swap itself, consider all the electrical and management systems, what else would need to be changed? would it end up a dogs dinner with ongoing problems? Knowing what DVLA are like would you end up with a Q plated car?

What about the options of the cars existing engine?
Possible replating of the bores.
Sleeving the bores.
Would it be better to reengineer the original engine? What about a company that could undertake the work and work on a basis of a bulk order to reduce costs? I have never done a post with so many ??????

Richard.

 

[CherryVimto]

I made enquiries about having the engine lined and was quoted:

'The price for this job is £130 per liner to machine and fit plus the cost of the liner. All plus VAT'

Unless the engine is being built to a high spec, I doubt at that cost it would be worth it....

 

[RICHARD MANSFIELD2]

Hi. Would that need need new pistons or just new rings with the new liners? I would say if it came in at about a grand or under it would still be better than the cost of a different engine from a different car. I would go down that route.
Richard

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

That'd be fun but possibly harder to achieve?

TBH, I think any engine swap is just about the same ammount of work and fabrication. What you end up with is important.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Hi. Would that need need new pistons or just new rings with the new liners? I would say if it came in at about a grand or under it would still be better than the cost of a different engine from a different car. I would go down that route.
Richard

If you put in cast iron liners, you can use the piston rings for Honda A18 engine as a set; dimensionally it fits already, without nikasil it would be material compatible as well and off you go...

 

[CherryVimto]

Hi. Would that need need new pistons or just new rings with the new liners? I would say if it came in at about a grand or under it would still be better than the cost of a different engine from a different car. I would go down that route.
Richard

Actually, you have a good point Richard
I hadn't really though about the cost of another engine, along will potential cost of any wiring loom etc.
And if we could replace piston rings etc. that would certainly future proof the engine.

If you put in cast iron liners, you can use the piston rings for Honda A18 engine as a set; dimensionally it fits already, without nikasil it would be material compatible as well and off you go...

Wild E...
Can I ask if you could post somewhere more information about the piston rings you talk about and the main bearings?
I read through your posts about the main bearings and piston rings. I tried to search for them.. I found some part numbers but I was not 100% positive I found the correct parts.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

No problem. The complete catalogue is here: https://npr-europe.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/RS6-1.pdf

What you need is

The bottom one, obviously. In fact this set has been floating around ebay as the one for 1.7 engine although it is not. The problem is neither the brand (NPR is excellent brand of high quality parts), nor the dimensions (they fit exactly). It is the material finish: the 1st compression ring and the oil scraper are chromed (CR in description, if you check the catalogue at he very begining is explanation of acronims and abbreviations) and chromed rings should not be used when engine uses nikasil treatment. But, If you resleeve it in cast iron, then this is useable solution and the engine can go on forever, basically.
Regarding the main cups: never did investigate it to much, as the puma crankshaft and pistons are balanced very good and the mains can last 500000 kms (if oil is replaced as it should be) without a problem.

 

[Paul Bulley]

You can buy piston and bore it out put liners in it think it makes 1.7 to 1.9 and you can get 200bhp easily by just cams and head work and itb and if you want more go turbo

 

[RICHARD MANSFIELD2]

Hi.
Another thing to consider is the overlap of the combustion chambers in relation the the bore. Any work done to reline the exiting block could not be of a smaller bore diameter than standard. Larger no problem provided the head can be skimmed to restore comp. ratio, unless of course a turbo is fitted. I have a spare engine which I hope to get rebuilt as a spare and would be interested in looking at something like this. Some of you may say is it worth the cost.
As the Puma becomes more of a collectable classic the cost becomes less of an issue. Having restored 1960s Minis the A series engine was cheap and plentiful with over 5 million Mini's made and 1.5 Million 1000/1300s not to mention MG Midgets etc. Now they are like hens teeth and expensive. I actually did thrown the odd one away.

Richard

 

[st220kyle]

I'd be very wary about fitting an Ecoboost.In the motor trade the Ecoboost is known as the Ecobang, apparently the book time for a cambelt change is 13.5 hours and a friend was quoted £1800 + vat to replace the belts by a Ford main dealer.They have a much higher failure rate than the Sigma engines. A local respected Ford service dealer reckons that the change about 10 a year, he dreaded to think how many main dealers change a year.

Yeah, Ecoboom!
Go near it with a decent map and it’s solis the bed.
The liners, block config and head seem to lunch themselves. Weak engine with mad heat and cooling system issues.
Avoid like the skanky woman down the pub, unless desperate….

I thought they were ecoboom which is a reason I was put off of buying a later Focus, but I'm sure most are fine

I think you are all referring to the 1.0L ecoboost? Otherwise I strongly disagree

The 1.6 ecoboost is what I was referring to.
This IS a sigma engine. These are very strong engines, I know people running 350bhp with just bolt on parts with no actual engine work as such and never had a single problem.

Also, they fit the puma gearbox meaning both mounts and drive shafts can be used. There is a guy in eBay selling custom made mounts for the engine side.
There are also management kits available now utilizing the OEM ecoboost ECU.

 

[red]

Yep.. I think really even the 1.0 is ok with the right one.

As I said before that I'd also be looking at that 1.6 version, it'd be great

 

[John Woodward]

Must admit I haven't heard anything bad about the 1.6, but most people in the motor trade don't rate the Ecoboost engine.