NITROUS.... Info Request

[ElDude at Allison Automotive]

If you've got the knowledge to rebuild or swap an engine

whats that got to do with anything..?? perhaps you could back that rather pointless statement up with bit more personal experience to back it up...

Iv'e been using my kit for years now without any "engine building skills"....

you can quite easily set up nitrous injection on your car...there isn't much to it at all.
.

That depends whether you view setting it up a matter of connecting it up and getting it working or want to install it in a tidy way for optimum delivery :idea:

There are a fair few considerations to take in to account when setting up a nitrous install..with regards to the pluming of the piping, the wiring, location of injection etc etc etc...

I think we'd all agree that the way 'the wizard' would install such a system might be very different from somone with basic electrical skills installing for the first time...



Chris
FRP453

 

[mikeFRP]

Take a look at mine or eldoods thread. We both have it fitted. All I can say is it's unbelievably effective way of tuning the engine!

It really does make the car fly. And for me it was the only way of tuning the Frp as I didn't want to lose the Frp manifold and loose the feel of the car.

I personally really don't understand why people say nitrous Is cheating! There is just as much if not more technology within the solenoids, controllers etc as any turbo or N/A route that other owners go down.

 

[mikeFRP]

It Is also legal on public roads. I have mine insured with adrian flux for road use.

The problem is alot of insurers won't insure nitrous use as they don't know or don't care about it. Therefore not declaring it, then makes it illegal for road use. However not declaring any mod is illegal so can't really argue with that

 

[[email protected]]

NItrous isn't cheating at all! Sure you can fit a cheap 50hp kit for around £500, but you can fit a cheap turbo kit for similar and see similar gains with similar risks.. And again a complex constant nitrous kit with updated internals will cost thousands of pounds as will a complex turbo conversion..

Fitting nitrous is a very viable option, especially for a road car, as when you aren't using it, you still have a perfectly normal car...

And as with any modification I.e. a cheap turbo conversion on std internals.. If you only full throttle it occasionally, putting a grin on your face down some b roads/ occasional track days, you won't really see any problems.. However if you tried to complete several qualifying laps of a track at full chat, your going to hit problems.. Same applies with nitrous..

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Nice sound advice.

I would say that cheap and turbo dont go together lol and Mike i will have a look at your threat. I have already viewed El Dudes.

 

[[email protected]]

Nice sound advice.

I would say that cheap and turbo dont go together lol and Mike i will have a look at your threat. I have already viewed El Dudes.

You could fit a low pressure turbo with select 2nd hand parts for
Around £500ish - for arguments sake lol

Basically: Cheap, Reliable, Fast - pick two

 

[Dannyeff]

tht would be nice... 500 quid for a 50bhp turbo.. sign me up!

 

[yippeekiay]

And as with any modification I.e. a cheap turbo conversion on std internals.. If you only full throttle it occasionally, putting a grin on your face down some b roads/ occasional track days, you won't really see any problems.. However if you tried to complete several qualifying laps of a track at full chat, your going to hit problems.. Same applies with nitrous..

Put them together and you have an even better proposition. Nitrous to boost lower rev torque AND spool up the turbo quicker which in turn enables earlier gear changes thus reducing the stress that comes with revving the engine at full chat as you put it :lol:

Only one problem you missed out though - going full chat on nitrous won't get you several laps unless you have a gas tanker following you around topping up your N2O cylinder :lol:

For Scotsman - here are a couple of videos I shot (bad ones I might add) just to give people an idea of the difference in acceleration it made in 5th gear to my car with & without nitrous. The kit wasn't optimised but was good enough for me running well on the rich side. It was the only way I could video it as if I tried to do it through the gears I would have needed 3 very fast hands :lol:

Without:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOKo9s4hSHM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHJxLgbJJSQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Pmsl @ the Gas Tanker!!

And you can see a difference between the two. I think i am sold on this idea. Ive had some very good advice here and via PM's and i thank all who gave your advice.

 

[[email protected]]

tht would be nice... 500 quid for a 50bhp turbo.. sign me up!

I'm not offering a kit lol... I mean if you have fabricating skills and equipment.. You could fit some
Cheap bits together and make a turbo work.. But it isn't goin to be reliable..

 

[Flying Scotsman]

tht would be nice... 500 quid for a 50bhp turbo.. sign me up!

I'm not offering a kit lol... I mean if you have fabricating skills and equipment.. You could fit some
Cheap bits together and make a turbo work.. But it isn't goin to be reliable..

Certainly not, Im looking at 5 grand for my conversion.

 

[[email protected]]

Put them together and you have an even better proposition. Nitrous to boost lower rev torque AND spool up the turbo quicker which in turn enables earlier gear changes thus reducing the stress that comes with revving the engine at full chat as you put it :lol:

Only one problem you missed out though - going full chat on nitrous won't get you several laps unless you have a gas tanker following you around topping up your N2O cylinder :lol:

If you didn't rev the engine, you wouldn't be reaching max power? Lol

Haha @ gas tanker but you know what I mean- if you drive it hard, a cheap nitrous kit on standard internals isn't going to last long

 

[[email protected]]

Certainly not, Im looking at 5 grand for my conversion.[/quote]

Even this doesn't seem too bad.. One of my mates at uni has around £15k+ just in his engine (Ford Focus ST170 turbo, approx <500bhp) just to make sure that it is bullet proof

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Well yes, but mines for a Puma... The more power the more its going to cost lol

 

[[email protected]]

true to some degree - but not going to start a new topic lol...

have you come to a decision on what you want to do?

 

[Flying Scotsman]

true to some degree - but not going to start a new topic lol...

have you come to a decision on what you want to do?

Yes, I am not put off by some peoples comments and i don't agree with the whole 'cheating' thing. Im going to do it for just a bit of fun and for things like overtaking.

So yes, I have found a suitable kit and controller. I will also change to clutch to cope with the demand and the suspension.
I have had a couple of offers to help with installation too.
Rather than going for a system that squirts just before the TB, i'm going for Direct Port.
My other decision just now is one or two bottles lol....

Ive been having design ideas and thinking for just design, two bottles will look better lol.

 

[alexwilliams840]

the obvious is why spend thousands on a car that is worth hundreds.. i know the puma is a great drive and i suspect a turbo with 5psi on standard internals with an intercooler ofc would be around £1000 and make the car very very good fun. no point having it go over 200bhp imo as at the end of the day, it is front wheel drive. and as for the focus st170 with that engine, i think thats ridiculous, why bother he could of got a second hand monster like an evo or scooby for less and then spent some on that if he wanted and i bet it'd be more fun and probably faster as it can put its power down. or why not get something japenese, i plan on getting an s2000 in a couple of years. 230bhp rear drive, yeah that will be more fun than a puma plus the fact they rev upto 9000, thats higher than most cars even supercars. i'm sorry but i don't see the point in spending the price of a low mileage second hand scooby on a puma. they're good enough standard, if you throw too much money at it you'll ruin it

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Understandable... For me i just love the puma, and especially my puma; A lot of love has gone into building it and money is just money. I do it because i like the car for my own reasons. Sure a scooby is a great car, but i reckon mine is pretty unique as it is and i love that about it.

When you get the s2000, get some pictures to us.

 

[[email protected]]

no point having it go over 200bhp imo as at the end of the day, it is front wheel drive. and as for the focus st170 with that engine, i think thats ridiculous, why bother he could of got a second hand monster like an evo or scooby for less and then spent some on that if he wanted and i bet it'd be more fun and probably faster as it can put its power down.

He's building a time attack/promo car for his engine tuning business.. plus a fully race prepped FWD focus with 500bhp will more than likely beat a road going scooby with few mods - at least I know where I would put my money...

For those who wish to have a look..
http://passionford.com/forum/restor...948-time-attack-st170-it-runs-01-06-12-a.html
VERY good read

 

[yippeekiay]

If you didn't rev the engine, you wouldn't be reaching max power?

That's is the beauty of nitrous, you don't need to rev the nuts off it as the biggest gain is in torque and we all know torque is what really matter at the end of the day. You can rev it to your hearts content but that's just a waste of gas in my opinion as I found the sweet spot was much better lower down and the engine itself was doing most of the work higher up so the gas wasn't really worth using then. When I fired it I was generally only around 2000 rpm and changed up around 5000 rpm, often earlier. Seems that Scotsman (is it Gregor?) has followed up with the exact reason I got mine and will use it in the same way to great effect, i.e........

Im going to do it for just a bit of fun and for things like overtaking.

As a tool for quick overtaking it's brilliant, no need to change gear or anything, just hit the floor and away you go. Very satisfying feeling it is too.

Just to note Gregor, I set mine up with a switch on the accelerator pedal instead of using a TPS like Mike and Chris have I believe. Their systems activate/deactivate at a predetermined rpm whereas mine is controllable by me and how I wanted it. It means I can still hit WOT with the system armed at all times but not activate the gas if I choose, to activate it I add a little extra pressure over and above what you would normally place on the pedal. Works for me but the TPS option is probably a safer way of going to avoid accidental activation at too low or too high rpm.

Oh - and I have used it to great effect on a track but won't again. Being on the same track as much better cars and having that at your disposal is too damn addictive and I know would end in disaster or end up costing a bloody fortune in refills. The 'problem' with the system is you can change the power setting in minutes with a change of jets, trying to resist that urge is the biggest downpoint in nitrous full stop :lol: