Really confused - not starting

[cj2013]

Hi all,

So having spent some time this evening putting everything back together, checking and double-checking, I put on my best 'sexface' and turned the key.

Initially, car ran but sounded lumpy, like it was running on 2 or 3 cylinders.

I've done the timing on it (something I've done before with the 1.7 zetec) and although I was a bit paranoid, new plugs can do this so stuck the old spark plugs in. Car won't start at all now.

Checked the plugs, wet nose.
Immobiliser light goes out as per normal
All fuses look okay
Everything connected as it should be
Leads are on the right nodes on the coil pack, all secure on the plugs

At this point I thought that it can only be my timing. Yanked off my freshly well sealed cam cover :'( cracked the timing cover a little too...

used a long screwdriver in #1's spark plug hole to get a rough TDC (save stripping it all back down again) and the bar fits in the rear of the cams fine inkeye:

So it seems that the timing is done just fine too. This was a precaution as it's difficult to tell really if there's perhaps a little loss of compression, but having not heard it turn over for a few weeks i'm not sure what it normally sounds like anyway.

Anyone got even the foggiest what could be causing this? could the gearbox earth be this much of a bastard, as that's perhaps the only thing that could be even slightly off as I couldn't recall which bolt it goes back on so used one of the ones by the starter.

I'm stumped - very experienced with engines but short of stripping it down again (which I really don't want to do) I can't figure out what's gone wrong?

A very small part of me wonders if my initial attempts to undo the crank pulley (before I got the locking tool for the flywheel) might have meant I've disturbed a valve, but I only did it by hand so that seems really unlikely inkeye:

 

[Cartman]

Did you use the corect timing pin on the cranc?

 

[alexwilliams840]

i had this last time i changed a cambelt, i bet the engine is actually flooded. there's a few steps to follow in the owners handbook which actually worked for me. i suggest you try this before taking it apart again

 

[cj2013]

i had this last time i changed a cambelt, i bet the engine is actually flooded. there's a few steps to follow in the owners handbook which actually worked for me. i suggest you try this before taking it apart again

Is it the one where you take the fuse out and crank it over?

Did yours run initially?

 

[cj2013]

Did you use the corect timing pin on the cranc?

Yes. As per my original post, I'm 99% sure the timing is spot on and if it was out it would only be a maximum of about a degree, or at least less than a tooth

 

[alexwilliams840]

No, it involves dipping the clutch i can't remember what was involved. mine turned over a bit but wouldn't fire at all

 

[cj2013]

Okay, so put the old plugs back in and followed the manual (which is basically both clutch and accelerator to the floor and then crank it over).

Had to crank it for longer than I was comfortable with, about 30 seconds or so of coughing spluttering and then eventually it did start.

The cam cover was loose and revs were around 1100, was making some unusual noises so still not convinced it's all good. Had to stop it as oil was spilling out of the cover seal, which I've resealed and I'll check again perhaps later or tomorrow and see how it starts (if it starts).

It's sort of a deep but hollow pulsing sound I'm not so sure about. The chattering i'm fine with, it's more than likely due to valvetrain noise from the loose cam cover

Here's a vid...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmwzk2TKkU4[/youtube]

 

[alexwilliams840]

it will probably calm down after a while. how long was it standing for?

 

[cj2013]

it will probably calm down after a while. how long was it standing for?

I've not run it since the start of the month I guess :/ maybe 3 weeks.

I won't really know if it's an issue til I try and start it again I guess, but want the cam cover liquid gasket to have a chance to set

 

[alexwilliams840]

sounds about right then, had mine started the other day for the first time in a few weeks. Sounded rough but she's all good again now. It is a Ford after all and they do not like being stood still in cold. I wouldn't worry about it at all k:

 

[cj2013]

I'm just worried because this ones been a PITA the whole time so I'm just waiting for something else to be wrong.

Normally with other belt changes I've done it's half a turn of the key and it starts.

The older puma I did a while back was the same, no issues.

 

[alexwilliams840]

I don't think the belt is causing any problems. I think it's because it's been standing in the cold

 

[cj2013]

I'm not so convinced now.

Started reasonably easily this morning, but stuttered its way up to ~1000rpm.

The tapping noise is a bit louder now to be fair it's a top end rattle so no concern but I think it's leading me more towards thinking that I'm going to have to strip back down the biggest bastard job again and re-do the timing.

The engine seems unbalanced and is chugging from the exhaust, even left it to warm up and it sounds a bit like an impreza sort of thing, almost a misfire but not.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzq9xfk_tR0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhvKT8PbJZ0[/youtube]



Is it time to start stripping down again :'(

 

[alexwilliams840]

I see what you mean :-(
It's such an arse that you have to strip it down again, but better to be safe

 

[cj2013]

I see what you mean :-(
It's such an arse that you have to strip it down again, but better to be safe

I wouldn't mind if it weren't for the bastard PAS pump and the fact I spent all yesterday putting it on back on as best I could

:'(

*sigh*

 

[cj2013]

Having spent all day taking it apart and retiming it again, double triple and quadruple checking it all, checked the timing a million fucking times, checked everything 200% and put it all back together.


No different. :x

I don't know whether to categorise it as a 'misfire' or not... any ideas welcome

Ignore the ABS/TC lights, I think I've still got one unplugged on the N/S

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9vgsirrE3E[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oob_0WnyIQ[/youtube]

 

[jimfrp88]

Did you make sure the VCT was back against the stop? A few people get caught out with this ..

 

[cj2013]

Did you make sure the VCT was back against the stop? A few people get caught out with this ..

I rotated it as far back as it felt it'd go.

I haven't touched it for a few days, spent weeks going through doing the clutch, brakes, cooling system, and doing the timing all of twice.

The timing was still lined up spot on when I took it apart for the second time. I've done these engines before so it's incredibly frustrating that it no doubt puts me in the same category of "did do it right".

There's a few possibilities that could be causing the problem, and I probably won't know until I get to do more work on it (trying to avoid removing the head as it's £150 to put it back together in parts really)..

- When undoing the crank pulley bolt that He-Man installed, I've disturbed a valve or several..
- The inlet manifold gasket (thick one) looked pretty shot, but can't see it causing an issue
- VCT pulley is set up incorrectly

Or a combination of the these.

Technically when the inlet cam is tightened it's got no choice but to go as far back as possible when you're nipping up the bolt and holding the cam still, but I did record a video to check that the cam wasn't lagging when the pulley was turning (so I knew it was fully retarded..)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-qkUiMwwKE[/youtube]

^ this was at the time I set the timing up and literally so I knew the first 10 degree or so wasn't taken up by the VCT deflection


If we're being realistic, it's got to be bent valves hasn't it?

Certainly didn't realise that such a slight error could have cocked the valves up so much, it definitely 200% hasn't occurred with the engine running - I'm too careful with that - so it can only have been undoing the crank bolt?

I've been running it through my mind and as much as I want it to be something simple, I can't really see how it's anything else..