ABS fault with a difference!

[PumaNoob]

Me again, im just about ready to give up on my car, theres just problem after problem! Ive spent about 6 hours max actually driving my car, and months underneath it :x

Anyhow, i wanted to pick the brains of anyone that knows how the Puma ABS system works and stores codes. Ive had my ABS light on since i brought the car, as i was planning on rebuilding the lot anyway. Changed all 4 ABS sensors, but it changed nothing. Heres the strange thing, i took the car to my mate at ford, and he put it on the diagnostic machine there, and it came up all clear, and said no fault codes were stored!! :shock: So i unplugged the abs pump plug, and tried it again. This time, it didnt come up with the option to communicate with the ABS ecu, because it obviusly knew it wasnt there. Plugged it back in, and the option for ABS came back up again. And again scanned it, and no faults came up! The light is on on the dash, and the ABS definitely isnt working as ive tried braking hard and it just locks up all the brakes.

Now something has put the abs light on, so surely something is stored somewhere to say why its on, or it wouldnt stay on!! If the EML light is on, its because the ecu is telling it to come on. Same with the airbag lights.

I tried a Snap on diagnostics machine, and got exactly the same results. Checked the ecu faults, and the usual faults came up, MAF fault (i have no MAF), cam position sensor (i have no cam position sensor) injectors (my injectors are run by a different ECU), and spark (also run by a different ECU). Then checked HUD faults, only fault that came up in the dash was low fuel warning light circuit malfunction, so i know there isnt a fault with the dash.

Then i took the diagnostics over to my green puma, same there, it diagnosed everything correctly, down to the airbag light because i removed the passenger seatbelt pretensioner.

So why the hell cant i find why my ABS light is still on?????????? :evil:

P.s, sorry for the long intro, just wanted to include as much as possible so people dont reply with the usual "check fuses", or check sensors or one of the usual answeres to an ABS problem.

 

[Reecey]

No one seems to know much about abs faults on this forum!!

 

[PumaNoob]

Lol, i know. Ive done a lot of research on ABS, and every time, the problem can be solved by putting it on a diagnostic machine! All i can think of is the ABS ecu is faulty, and thats why its not reporting a fault. Its a bit of a ball ache to change the pump, but im planning on changing the fluid for a better fluid anyway. Ill keep everyone updated anyway incase someone else has the same issue at some point!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Try anither abs pump and ecu I have a spare

 

[PumaNoob]

How much do you want for it Steve??

 

[woodyheminsley]

You mentioned you've changed sensors, have you checked or replaced any rings? Was rear ring keeping my light on

 

[ScubaSteve]

Try it first if it works just give me a tenner youl have to get it though LOL its pretty heavy to post! I could meet you off j7 or 6 m5

 

[ElDude at Allison Automotive]

doing all the sensors at once can be a real nightmare, especially the rear....

the rear pickup ring has to be pretty much touching the sensor to operate correctly, if it's spaced even a half mm back it probably will cause issues.... sometimes when the ABS is almost right you get ticking noises when driving very slowly or parking etc...

I'd put money on it being something to do with the rear pickup rings..

Chris

 

[ScubaSteve]

if you give up on this car because of an abs fault i swear to god i will fight u

 

[PumaNoob]

You mentioned you've changed sensors, have you checked or replaced any rings? Was rear ring keeping my light on

Yeah, i replaced one rear ring too, because when checking the distance between the sensor and ring with a feeler gause, one was not straight. The thing is, if it was a rear ring, why would the abs ECU show up no faults?? It wouldnt show up a ring, but it would show up a fault in the rear left or rear right sensor circuit! Mine shows nothing.

doing all the sensors at once can be a real nightmare, especially the rear....

the rear pickup ring has to be pretty much touching the sensor to operate correctly, if it's spaced even a half mm back it probably will cause issues.... sometimes when the ABS is almost right you get ticking noises when driving very slowly or parking etc...

I'd put money on it being something to do with the rear pickup rings..

Chris

Again, if there was an issue with the ring, would the abs ecu not show up a fault in the rear sensor circuit? It wouldnt know exactly what the problem was, but it would know its not getting the correct feedback from 1 or more sensors, so it would reportt that as a fault. The ABS light means a stored fault code, but not in my case. SOmething is keeping that ABS light on, i just need to trace what it is. I have done the usual checks, using an OHM meter to check resistance when spinning the wheel, and im getting the same readings in both the back wheels, and both the fronts (IIRC there was a slight difference between the backs and fronts), but both were around 1.1k ohms. Why would the light be on if there is no fault?

if you give up on this car because of an abs fault i swear to god i will fight u

:lol: That made me giggle!! That wouldnt happen mate, id just drive it with no ABS, its just another niggly problem that i feel like its not complete unless i sort it. I cant rest until that dash light is out, and i dont want to just remove the bulb, thats cheating. IUf i dont sort it, then it feels like ive only done half a job!

I only said im about ready to give up on it because i was in a strop, im also having issues with brakes and possibly a buckled hub, so i spat my dummy out and threw all the toys out of the pram!!! In reality, for the amount of time and effort ive put into this thing, i could never give up, just keep overcomming the issues that pop up, no doubt when i sort this, something else will come up! Its just dis-heartening when all you seem to do is fix the car instead of drive it.

 

[quest63]

i spat my dummy out and threw all the toys out of the pram!!!

What kind of pram is it? what mods have you done :grin:

 

[PumaNoob]

Lol!!!! :lol: Silver cross, with a supercharged V8, and 10" chrome spinners!!!! And it covered in purple Velour!!

 

[DOH]

Just a thought,
As you've got sensible resistance values, would it be worth doing a continuity test & also a resistance test, from the connector on the ABS pump to each of the sensor wires individually?
i.e.The plug on the rear beam for the 2 sensors & the 2 plugs behind the arch shield under the front wings.
From memory getting the connector off ABS the pump lookedvirtually inaccessible(maybe from under the car?). But wondered if it was possible for any corrosion to have got in there, causing high resistance to the ABS pump.

Did you try my advise on re aligning the rear axle beam?

 

[PumaNoob]

Just a thought,
As you've got sensible resistance values, would it be worth doing a continuity test & also a resistance test, from the connector on the ABS pump to each of the sensor wires individually?
i.e.The plug on the rear beam for the 2 sensors & the 2 plugs behind the arch shield under the front wings.
From memory getting the connector off ABS the pump lookedvirtually inaccessible(maybe from under the car?). But wondered if it was possible for any corrosion to have got in there, causing high resistance to the ABS pump.

Did you try my advise on re aligning the rear axle beam?

It goes back to the same point though, if there was corrosion in the plug connectors or there was a break in the circuir somewhere, shouldnt that show up as a fault on the ABS module when scanned? Its certainly possible for moisture to get inside the plug, and cause corrosion, its very difficult to get the plugs out the ECU, but if you lever the top bit that secures it out with a screwdriver, it comes out quite easily.

Ive not had chance to drive the car yet since that Liecester meet, because ive been waiting for hose clamps to arrive, they were supposed to be 1st class delivery, and took over a week to arrive! And with working away from home, i dont get to spend much time on the car. Ive got the front brakes to sort out before i can drive it properly again, need to check of its warped discs or the hub is buckled. Once its all sorted ill try that rear beam alignment trick. Im ticking off the issues 1 by 1, had a gearbox leak, hopefully fixed that, dismantling a gearbox while still fitted to the car is interesting! Hopefully sorted an oil leak, engine was tilting with the torque, and oil filter housing was hitting fan cowling and causing it to leak. Adjusted cam timing, and done a lot of work on the brakes to make things easier and cheaper in the future. Also changed some of the intercooler hoses to hopefully prevent any further issues with hoses blowing off.

 

[DOH]

Gearbox:Mine dumped a load of oil out of the gearbox after a 50 mile drive a few months back. It was then that i discovered that the garage that had replaced the clutch a few years back , had refitted the breather on the top of the box with the arrow pointing in the wrong direction. All's fine , but the box needed almost 2 litres of oil!

I haven't personally tried this on a Puma yet . But in view of the clearance being almost identical as the Fiesta(The Ford dealers used to do this). I used to replace clutches on early mk3/4 escorts & fiestas without actually completely taking the gear box off. I used to support the engine with a bar ( you can use a thick piece of timber across the top of the inner wings.
The drive shafts could then be left in and after removing mounts and gear linkage and starter, the box could be rotated on the driveshafts and end up below the engine.

Leaving the flywheel fully exposed to change the clutch. Saved a lot of time and having to remove refit drive shafts, drain& refill the gearbox oil etc.
the earlier ford boxes had a breather tube which I could clamp off, I guess with the Puma, the breather plug would need to be temporarily be replaced with a suitably sized rubber bung, to stop the gear oil being lost whilst the gearbox box is rotated , possibly upside down.

Has anyone tried this on a Puma?

Looks like there's enough room to use this method, unlike the Ford KA (The gearbox is too close to the Radiator to spin the box around)

 

[yippeekiay]

Errol, have you considered it may be a fault with the ABS light itself i.e. the instrument binacle? If your getting no error codes from the system itself maybe the bulb is shorting or something as infuriatingly simple-ish?

Just to add - when my ABS light was on the TC light was also on so I'm assuming both are on in yours. If not, then I'd be more inclined to think it was indeed a bulb/instrument problem.....just a thought mate. :?

 

[PumaNoob]

Ive never tried changing the clutch with the box still on, ill give it a go next time i have to change mine!!

Errol, have you considered it may be a fault with the ABS light itself i.e. the instrument binacle? If your getting no error codes from the system itself maybe the bulb is shorting or something as infuriatingly simple-ish?

Just to add - when my ABS light was on the TC light was also on so I'm assuming both are on in yours. If not, then I'd be more inclined to think it was indeed a bulb/instrument problem.....just a thought mate. :?

I did think this, as i did make the clocks myself!! But there are 2 things that make me think its not the clocks. Firstly i did a diagnostic on just the clocks, and the only fault that came up was the low fuel warning light malfunction, which i found out the hard way already, luckily i was on my drive when the fuel ran out!! :? Secondly, if it was just the dash light, the abs would work, but the brakes lock up when i brake hard from high speed. I might just drop the old clocks back in just to eliminate the clocks from the equation. And ill fit my mondeo clocks to my green puma and see if the light is still on. But it definitely worth a check! k:

 

[woodyheminsley]

I was informed the Puma ABS/TC is a pretty useless system... this was def confirmed in my eyes few weeks back when all wheels locked up and i came to a spectacular sideways stop when a 4x4 pulled out on me in the damp... No ABS kicked in under the pedal and this was with the system "working" ie no light on!!!

 

[PumaNoob]

I was informed the Puma ABS/TC is a pretty useless system... this was def confirmed in my eyes few weeks back when all wheels locked up and i came to a spectacular sideways stop when a 4x4 pulled out on me in the damp... No ABS kicked in under the pedal and this was with the system "working" ie no light on!!!

What part of Walsall you in mate?

I think the ABS is pretty good on my green puma, and i certainly felt the pedal pumping whenever i locked up the brakes. Each to their own, but i quite like it, and i at least want the option to have it working.

 

[quest63]

I was informed the Puma ABS/TC is a pretty useless system... this was def confirmed in my eyes few weeks back when all wheels locked up and i came to a spectacular sideways stop when a 4x4 pulled out on me in the damp... No ABS kicked in under the pedal and this was with the system "working" ie no light on!!!

Does the light come on when you turn the ignition on? if not maybe the bulbs been sabotaged