FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

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Its always confusing at first, but when you break it down, its actually not that bad, obviusly depending on your skill level, but im certainly no mechanic or auto electrician, but ive done a few, and mapped them myself. Its never going to be perfect because you cant put a specific amount of load on your engine and hold it there on a normal road, but you can get it in the right ball park. In my opinion, turbo cars are easier to map then NA, because if you look at the ignition map for a 2.0 turbo vauxhall engine, and a 2.0 turbo rover engine, and a 2.0 saab engine, there really isnt much difference, because you dont have such a big range of advance on ignition timing, because the EGT's (exhaust gas temp's) are so high, you have to keep it fairly retarded , except on full vac.

The megasquirt was developed specificly for the ford engines, and so uses the standard ford 36-1 trigger pattern, EDIS and coil pack, and engine sensors are all compatible. If you are going to attempt to fit it yourself, then id advise you sign up to the Extra EFI forums, you will get all the information and help you need there, from wiring instructions, trouble shooting, and mapping, to more advanced stuff like building the actual ECU yourself!

Depending on what car you are putting it on, then for simplicity, you can run the standard ECU for everything but the fuelling and ignitiion timing. Then with a megasquirt, or most other ECU's for that matter, all you need, is a MAP (manifold pressure) sensor, (they are built into the megasquirt), a crank position sensor signal, a permanent live, an ignition live, and a constant earth. Thats the basics of it, so you can wire the earth from anywhere on the chassis, & both lives directly from the fuse box, just make sure its after the fuse, so youve got it fused. Then just splice into the 2 wires from the crank position sensor. Thats all it needs to function!!! Then you wire in the EDIS module, off the top of my head, theres 2 wires that go to the edis module from the ECU to the EDIS, and then 3 from the EDIS to the coil pack. And thats your ignition set up! Then the injectors are batch fired, so you could get away with 1 fused live to all 4 injectors, a switched earth (via ECU) to bank 1 (cylinders 1 &4), and a switched earth (via ECU) to bank 2 (cylinders 2 & 3).

All in all, thats not a lot of work, and thats the very basic set up, you would then need to wire in water temp (to allow for automatic adjustment of fuelling when the car is hot or cold), and then throttle position and air temp are optional. You can let the standard ecu control the fans, and the idle control.

As i said, im no expert, im not a tuner, an auto electrician, or a mechanic, but ive done this before, and its worked out fine on my applications! I mapped my last car to 230bhp and its still running fine now, but that was just ignition timing i mapped. The fuelling is easier as long as you have a wideband lambda!
 
cheers for the reply yet again.
im a mechanic but it still baffles the hell out of me, its good to talk to someone that understands it. ive been looking on how people have done it and some have drilled holes in the camshafts and things like that and i dont really fancy doing that tbh
 
Drilled holes in camshafts???? :?
That confuses the hell out of me, why on earth would someone drill the camshafts?? I dont know an aftermarket ecu that uses anything to do with the cams!! Unless they are drilling them because there is no dowel in them, but that would have nothing to do with the cams!

The way i see it mate, is why complicate something when it can be so simple. What car are you doing, in a puma or something else?? Another option you can use is the standard cvh turbo ecu and loom will run a 2.0 zetec turbo no problem! Its still fuel injected and wasted spark, so you can use that loom and ecu with a remap! As long as you have the vital ingredients, crank position sensor, 36-1 trigger pattern, wasted spark, temperature sensors etc. Im using puma sensors in the duratec engine so they will plug straight into the puma loom, without any cutting! The threads are all the same, just the plugs are different. I know of a lad thats put a duratec turbo in a mk3 fiesta, with focus RS management, and it works fine! The only issues you could encounter are if the injectors are majorly different flow rates, you couldnt just put 600cc injectors on when they were 250cc as standard, but as long as you go same sort of impedance as the original injectors from the ECU , and same sort of flow rate to match the engine it will work just fine. So just say if you had a 1.6l with 160cc injectors, youd need to use around 200cc injectors in a 2.0l engine and the ECU wil adjust for it.

Obviusly with a remap, you could use whatever injector size the ECU can cater for!
 
basically i have a puma 1.7 and i hate the vct. im looking to go for a 1.8 zetec e with a turbo on it, it is a track car so im not fussed about pats or anything like that. at first im looking to keep costs down prob run about 220 bhp on standard internals just a decompression plate and arp bolts ive seen they are good for 250bhp on standard internals. i just want to keep it cheap at first but i want the option for big power when funds allow it.. thats why i have gone for the 1.8 because the internal walls are thicker so it can handle a lot more boost.
but i am really stumped on management its not my strong point at all the ecu i have in the puma atm is the earlier type i dont know if that makes any difference.
i just dont want to start the build and get half way there and think about management then.
 
Interesting choice of engine, most people just go for the 2.0, but thats a good choice, only problem with that engine is that its harder to get the bits for then the 2.0. But the turbo dosent need to be able to flow as much gas to fill those cylinders, so the power wont drop off as soon!! :thumbs: You are the 1st person ive ever heard say they dont like the VCT, i love it!!

I think the cheapest option would be the OFAB ecu and loom from the fiesta or escort RS turbo. With a T3 or T25 turbo would be a great set up for the power you want. There are 2.0 turbo manifolds on ebay for about £90 that fit the 1.8. Would be quite a cheap conversion, using the standard puma box, it fits perfect over the 1.8 flywheel, and an ST150/focus 1.8 clutch. Then you only need to get a drivers side mount, not sure if the mk3 1.6 mount can be adapted or used?

But as for management, OFAB i think would be the cheapest and the simplest, then if you can get hold of a focus RS mk1 ecu and loom, that will work, then if you are going to fit and map yourself, megasquirt has the most information available, but a lot of tuning companies wont tune megasquirt. Then you have the OMEX, DTA, Emerald ect, all not too bad to wire in, (ive only done omex and megasquirt, but the drawings look the same), but are quite expensive to buy, and if you want it mapped properly, its hours of rolling rd mapping, and most tuning companies will put a lock on it so you cant tweak it, or give it to other people!
 
i think what he means with drilling the camshaft is on some engines you drill and tap the rear of the camshaft to take a toothed wheel/set of lugs that are used by sensor for cam position. A lot of earlier engines didnt use direct cam position sensors but took it off the crank and or distributor to get the ignition phase right. When you move to later modern management on such engines you can ditch the dizzy and some go for a cam position sensor so they can remove the whole dizzy unit.
 
But as far as im aware, none of the aftermarket ECUs use cam position, they only use crank position sensors, MAP sensors, throttle position, IAT sensors, and water temp. As i said before, ive not looked into all the aftermarket ECU's on the market, but ive never heard of cam sensors being used as a trigger. I suppose it would be more accurate then using crank, as they turn 2 degrees to every one of the crank, so even more slight adjustments could be made.

PS, saw some of your work warren with the carbon fibre, Very impressed !!! :thumbs:
 
no both cam and crank sensor. not so common on aftermarket as its technologically behind but very common place on OEM. Some of the top flight aftermarket stuff uses a phase/cam sensor as does cossie management for example. Its especially important to have a camshaft position sensor if you have any form of VCT/adjustable cam timing.

the carbon is coming along slowly!! got more time over summer now!!
 
Yeah, i know a lot of OEM stuff uses Cam position, & as you say with a VCT set up it just wouldnt work without it, but i thought Ricey was talking about people wiring in Aftermarket ECU's on Zetec turbo conversions, & ford have been using the EDIS and wasted spark since about 1990, so i dont know what turbo ecu you would "need" to madify cams to run the zetec turbo. The OFAB & OFAC ecu will run without it, the Focus RS will run without it, and it all the Aftermarket ECU's will run without it. But then i know NOTHING at all about cossie management, so maybe it was that they are wiring in!
 
WOW, the insurance engineer just came out to look at my car, showed me the book price on it, it was about £2500!!!! I told him "hell no", you wont find one of these for less then about £5500, and they will probably have rusted arches and brakes shot like mine was. Ive already spent more then that book price just doing mine up!!

Im gutted, but im sticking with it, ill just take whatever i can get out of them, and ill have to front the rest of the repair bill myself :-(
 
book price is bollocks too. But thats what they will use to write it off with. Then you will have to fight for ages using adverts etc to show its worth more.

I really dont understand book prices... surely they do research to put accurate prices in the book as its categorised as trade in , private and dealer. FRP prices havent fluctuated much in recent years so their research must be aware of the current pricing for these cars. Or is the whole parkers guide influenced by insurers and deliberately marks down all the values???? Sure if the prices fluctuated wildly then the book would be out of date, but its regularly updated and released at least once a year!!!

cossie management is a popular conversion on RS turbo's/zetec turbos as it is a highly mappable ECU and completely stand alone management. Thats why a lot want lobes put on the cams for phase sensing. People even do it on cossies so they can completely remove the distributer.

cam position/phase sensing isnt needed on most cheapish aftermarket ECU's. Its when you get into the top flight pricey shit that you see it as an option, such as the pectel T6 WRC motorsport type stuff.
 
heres a photo of someones bodge of a camshaft for a position sensor!!! :roll:
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if you do it properly you use a proper balanced and machined cam trigger that bolts on end of cam like this:
images
 
Who ever did that 1st cam did well to drill into that camshaft, they are case hardened, i dont know how he managed that, but if he had the machinery to do that, id have thought he'd have done it properly, and balanced it!

cam position/phase sensing isnt needed on most cheapish aftermarket ECU's. Its when you get into the top flight pricey shit that you see it as an option, such as the pectel T6 WRC motorsport type stuff.

Thats why i know nothing about it!!! :grin: Everyone knows i love cheap sh*t!!!

He had a tablet laptop so it was linked directly to the Glass's price guide online, but as i said to him, the brakes are brand new (theyre obviusly not, ive just refurbed them), and the arches have just been done, they are the things that let these cars down, so finding one with mint bodywork, and serviced brakes would not be cheap!!

I really wouldnt be suprised if the car price guides werent influenced by insurers, i dont think ive ever seen a car at the "guide price"!! Especially a limited edition car! The way i see it, their client was careless, and as a result caused damage to my house and my car, so no matter what the cost to repair, they should repair, or buy me another one to replace it!! I should not be left out of pocket in any way shape or form, as it was nothing to do with me, i wasnt even in the car at the time!!

Ill just have to wait and see what they come up with, but youll know i havent sorted it you if you see an FRP driving around with a half fibre glass, half duct taped bumper!!
 
When my bike was written off they tried to con me by saying there were cheaper bikes out there for sale in better condition - but couldn't show me exactly at the time!!..yeah, whatever!!. My simple answer was fair enough, replace mine with an equivalent bike i.e. age, condition, mileage etc - and I'll be happy. They paid out what I asked as they knew fine well they couldn't get one for less ;)
 
remove bumper and drop it down to me dude im sure i could do summet with that as long as arch clips are in tact... failing the clips in tact would mean you would need another bracket attatched to fix or in fact bond it..
 
iv stripped a front one....the grp has a treaded bar bonded into it and that bolts to a plastic frame...front plastic frame is £20 from ford!! so not the end of the world if the fame has broken too!

my last front snapped in the middle!!! its on the car now, no one has ever noticed i fixed it at home!!!
 
Not updated for a while, so thought id update now with some pics. Managed to get a bumper (thanks for the contact Clarkie), at a reasonable price, and a new tailgate, so just to repair the damaged panels. Here are some pics of the damage
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And here are some from inside.
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There look to be more rust then metal, so the panels needed to be replaced anyway, im just forced into changing them sooner rather then later!! Hopefully ill have it done by the end of next week!!

The damage dont look so bad in the pics, but it will never be straight again unless i replace it, and the rust needed to go anyway. In person it looks a lot worse
 
yes mate you do need the rear panel inner and out. if its a 2nd hand one make sure they dont cut it throw the in side off panel like what someone did to mine try and unpick it all off nice, yeh your rust is like mine was, every frp is the same, they may loook mint but strip them down and see wha tyou find. at least now by fitting a new one your be rust free. just take your time un picking it, at least your floor ant gone, hey if you need any parts painted drop the down, well sort you out :) you can see my mates paint jobs on my frp when its done :) if you want a new spot weld drill come down my work in week or tell you wha till give some to your mate at my work to pass on to you hows that, :wink: nice and sharp
 
Mate, your a ledgend!!
Might come and see you anyway, got them arches done as i told you before, and paid quite a lot, and they are CRAP!!! Theyve gone already at the bottoms! And need the front and rear bumpers spraying up! Ill get this done and come and see you!
 
yeh that all good mate, im at work from 8 till 6 and sat 830 till 1230. well if you want up bumpers doing just drop them down my pal charge £50 a bumper, but the more you give him the cheaper it works out. ill show you my frp :)
 
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