How to Kill the small rear arch Blisters

[jellison]

I know Puma's seem to have this curse (small rust blisters on the edge of the rear arch).

I just have one but can't seem to get it to stop breaking through.

Have had it back to bare metal a few times and used a few anti rust prep solutions to pre treat it pre primer and then some Ford touch in paint.

Any more suggestions to eradicate this. A pain. But do not want to farm out to a spray place - as why shoul they be able to kill it (and if they can't and it breaks through you know there will be bugger all you can do to go back to them and not worth it on a 11 year old car (even if the rest is in top nick). It is only about 1/2" square (maybe a bit more now rubbed back). Don't care it it is a perfect finish just so that it does not keep breaking through.

 

[ianv5]

You are not alone. New metal is the only cure.

 

[jellison]

Seems excessive if once rubbed down to the metal and all trace of rust gone?

Is metal so thinn and or rust is coming through from the back? Is it boxed in that area?

 

[DerbyDan]

Seems excessive if once rubbed down to the metal and all trace of rust gone?

Is metal so thinn and or rust is coming through from the back? Is it boxed in that area?

I'm afraid the rust is coming through from the back - if you were to take off the internal trims to allow access to the inside of your rear arches you'd be quite surprised :-( Somehow it seems moisture gets into this area (there is a hole behind the fabric wheel arch liner) & sits there causing the rust - new metal is the only permanant cure i'm afraid :|

 

[jellison]

Sorry to not be clear on this.

So to get behind (the other side of the panel) do I take out the wheel arch liner, does this give me total access to the are?

Is it a double sceen so can see the otherside of the panel from inside the car?

 

[ianv5]

Need to go in through the back of the car. There is a project car on here somewhere that shows you what to do. Can't find it at the moment.

 

[jellison]

Thanks Ian (if anyone does have this threads link please post).

So is this thread sayin if you can get in behind and it is not too bad that proper treatment inside and out could fix it (or hold it off alot longer than just redoing the outside?).

But how doe the rust get in, in the first place - I have read it is the mat type wheel liners that just hold water. So should these be ditched or replaced or just hamerited over (if a hole to the inner side of the arch to seal this up).

 

[ianv5]

Need to find thread, at work so can't do it at the mo. I think if you treat inside it should work.

 

[ianv5]

Thanks Ian (if anyone does have this threads link please post).

So is this thread sayin if you can get in behind and it is not too bad that proper treatment inside and out could fix it (or hold it off alot longer than just redoing the outside?).

But how doe the rust get in, in the first place - I have read it is the mat type wheel liners that just hold water. So should these be ditched or replaced or just hamerited over (if a hole to the inner side of the arch to seal this up).

Have Pm'd you.

 

[jellison]

Cool - Think I'll do this when weather better and can spend a few days on it properly (i.e. from inside).

 

[yippeekiay]

I'm not 100% on where this 'inside' is. Whether it's inside the wheel arch or inside the car as some people have found the rust starts from inside the car but that usually comes through the bodywork well above the wheel arch. This area I'm sure has been documented on here or the other site where someone waxoyled the area. I have some stuff for this but haven't got round to using it yet.

The inside of the wheel arch itself should be treated aswell which I thought would be a given if the rust is closer to or on the edge and lip.

I got a little bubbling last year so stipped out the liners, cleaned what I could then treated all the inside of the arches to the outside face of the car and also to other areas that were bubbling or rusting like near the brake line brackets etc. I totally soaked the lip all the way round with rust killer/preventer too as there was a few places that were obvious water traps.

Where my rust was bubbling there was a break in the paint, right on the folded back edge to the arch, I didn't want to brake the paint off so spent ages slapping the treatment on there in hope that it would soak in and kill as much as possible. The bubbling doesn't seem to have gotten much worse since but I know it will. When it gets to actually showing rust on the bodywork I'll then brake out the flappy disc and take the paint off and treat it all properly.

As for the liners, they're a stupid design being 'cloth', can't say I've ever had a car with anything but 100% plastic before the Puma. I'd have thought someone would have manufactured some plastic replacements by now but never seen any anywhere and I can't be arsed myself....lol.

 

[jellison]

Ian has very kindly sent me a link on how to access the other side.

It IS fron inside - but require taking the seats and all trim and speakers out on that side.

Then basically get some VERY strong Rust KILLER, sand it all off and apply (may have to take off the sound deadening to get at it all. The put the killer on. and when all dry (maybe two coats of killer). Waxoyl the area.

Then pull out the inner arch mats and chuck them and sand underside of arches and hit with killer and then a few layers of hamerite then possible Waxoyl (option I'd say as a bit smooth panel and the moister absorbing Shite has been removed.

Then clean area throughly.

Ian - Ok to post like to the inside access?

Found another site showing cutting away the arch edge (only if extreme i'd say) - mine no where near (pretty minor but needs nipping in the bud).

 

[YOG]

Here's a link to my project over on PumaPeople.

If you look at post #13, the pic is looking down on the RH rear wheel arch with the rear internal panel removed. The "brown" you can see is the original "wax" treatment which Ford applied (at least they did to mine, built in the last production week).
I believe you get rusting coming through from the inside because you get condensation forming on cold metal surfaces inside here:
http://www.pumapeople.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97645&st=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a lot more pics of the treatment if anyone has specific questions.

 

[YOG]

@ jellison

I'll answer your PM on here, I don't tend to spend any time on PumaPeople, as one or two of the Moderators cannot make the important decisions that affect that site.

It's impossible to properly access the inside of the rear arches, as you can see from the following pics.
I was lucky, as you can see there was no rust, so I just sprayed all the internal surfaces with Bilt Hamber Dynax S-50. This is a Corrosion Prevention, but is also able to arrest existing corrosion. I used the aerosols, which come with very long, flexible extension nozzles and sprayed from all different directions through the various accesses in both the passenger and boot areas. When I did this, it became obvious that there are gaps within the welding, as some S-50 dripped on parts of the tyre treads and the ground. I don't believe these are drainage holes, as the spacing on both sides was too erratic.
Dynax S-50:
http://www.bilthamber.com/dynaxs50.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If there had been rust already there, I think I would have removed as much as I could reach, then bodged up a hand sprayer fitted with one of the S-50 extension nozzles and sprayed the rust areas with a coating of Built Hamber Hydrate 80 corrosion converter. When it was dry, I would have then sprayed a further coating to hopefully ensure all the rust areas were covered. Once that was dry, I would have applied the S-50.
Hydrate 80:
http://www.bilthamber.com/hydrate80.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think that this is a good way of treating that area, but obviously, when rust has taken hold, the best method is to have it cut out and replaced with new metal and immediate apply Dynax S-50, for example.

LH Inner Arch (Ford treatment):

Rear Arch 01

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 02

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 03

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 04

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 13

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 06

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

RH Inner Arch (Ford treatment):

Rear Arch 07

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 08

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 09

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 10

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 11

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

Rear Arch 12

• YOG
• Jan 26, 2011

I use paints4u.com for my aerosols:
http://www.paints4u.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[yippeekiay]

Good pictures Rick

Might get some of that Dynax S-50 as the Dynax UB I got is a bit gloopy so wouldn't have a chance of trying to spray the bugger....lol. The Hydrate is very sprayable so may give the hole car a good going over (one day) where I can't get in with a brush.

 

[YOG]

I thought it might be useful to post a PM reply I sent to jellison (Jon) re this:

"Bilt Hamber do both Deox-C and Deox Gel which are rust removers, rather than rust converters. Have a look here:
http://www.bilthamber.com/corrosionremoval.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't used that anywhere. What I did do on the underside of the car, was use a grinding wheel/rotary wire brush to remove rust down to bare undamaged metal. Then treated with Hydrate 80 and applied a coating of Hammerite No1 Rust Beater before brushing on coatings of Bilt Hamber Dynax UB (underbody protection wax). The No1 was not strictly required, but just a suggestion by Bilt Hamber technical.
Hammerite No1 Rust Beater:
http://www.hammerite.co.uk/products/ps_" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... eater.html
Dynax UB:
http://www.bilthamber.com/DynaxUBtec.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On my door sills, under the "plastic" kick sills on my Thunder, there were small patches of rust, quite common due to moisture/dirt being trapped. I wire brushed/sanded these to bare metal and then sprayed with a Bilt Hamber Electrox aerosol. This is a zinc rich coating that protects bare metal. You apply it straight to bare clean metal to give both barrier and electrical functionality. It doesn't matter if you overlap it on the surrounding paint, just doesn't give the electrical functionality there.
Electrox:
http://www.bilthamber.com/electrox.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you can get down to clean, bare metal, with no rust on the outer arches, Electrox may be the way to go short term, prior to applying the paint coat and lacquer. Electrox does not work if you apply any coating before it, as it must be in direct contact with the metal.

I treated the sills with Electrox long before Xmas, but then it got too cold to spray the paint, so it's gone all Winter without any problems. I will be giving the coating a gentle sand, then paint and lacquer it. After this, I have stainless steel kick sills which I will fasten on with Velcro, so they can be removed for washing under."

 

[red]

There is a guide here by arcdef...

How To Guides :: how to prevent rear arch rust

 

[ParaDigmmusik]

if the rust is coming from the front of the piant work, then rub it down anti rust solution then use this amzing stuff called metalik, however this wont work if the rust has already gone through. its a kinda putty which imitates metal so spray over tht and job done
x