Good work!
Is it tough to get a good finish after they come out of the moulds?
Is it tough to get a good finish after they come out of the moulds?
learning about making carbon parts
- Thread starter warrenpenalver
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warrenpenalver
Active member
the finish depends on the finish of the mould to an extent and also how well the resin flows. So far ive been able to get a mostly pin hole free finish just being careful and using extra resin. Many places cheat and lacquer the finished product to hde any defects.
The hard part is ensuring the carbon fabric stays in the mould exactly on the tight corners so you dont get too many resin rich areas. Doing it with carbon on its own isnt too bad, its when youve put on all the bagging stick which is a few mm thick, youve got to then force it into the corners without damaging the vacuum bag so the vacuum can hold it in.
a lot of people cheat and use wet lay which is resin rich, or go the really expensive route and use pre-preg fully all over. hence why people prefer to make body panels as its simple curves.
The hard part is ensuring the carbon fabric stays in the mould exactly on the tight corners so you dont get too many resin rich areas. Doing it with carbon on its own isnt too bad, its when youve put on all the bagging stick which is a few mm thick, youve got to then force it into the corners without damaging the vacuum bag so the vacuum can hold it in.
a lot of people cheat and use wet lay which is resin rich, or go the really expensive route and use pre-preg fully all over. hence why people prefer to make body panels as its simple curves.
warrenpenalver
Active member
well the centre console production prototype is done!!
literally cut it out and trimmed it just now.
from the side:
from the front:
glued in the bottom of the cubby hole and the securing prongs and just had to go fit it to the car!!
Im massively impressed!! its not even been sanded or polished up yet!!! It doesnt sit perfectly flat on my tunnel as my car is different to standard. The use of pre-preg means only one top join line at the back of the console which is a success!!
Dont need to change a thing to start making them!! Might just polish the mould a bit more to save polishing the moulded parts but its not really necessary.
oh and the cool bit...... original part wieghs 200g. my part weighs 105g, so you can save weight and still have a niceish interior!!
literally cut it out and trimmed it just now.
from the side:
from the front:
glued in the bottom of the cubby hole and the securing prongs and just had to go fit it to the car!!
Im massively impressed!! its not even been sanded or polished up yet!!! It doesnt sit perfectly flat on my tunnel as my car is different to standard. The use of pre-preg means only one top join line at the back of the console which is a success!!
Dont need to change a thing to start making them!! Might just polish the mould a bit more to save polishing the moulded parts but its not really necessary.
oh and the cool bit...... original part wieghs 200g. my part weighs 105g, so you can save weight and still have a niceish interior!!
mix2000
Active member
SWEET!!!!
warrenpenalver
Active member
thought people will like them. Will calculate how much its cost to make them then probably start a thread on them in the next couple days.
warrenpenalver
Active member
got a couple of different types of infusion mess to try out so will do it on a carbon sheet later on to see which one is quicker etc:
also been experimenting with making my own "pre-preg" carbon by wetting out carbon on some plastic sheet and freezing it so it doesnt cure
not the same as proper pre-preg but may be useful for small parts like the gear lever surround to save costs. the decent pre-preg is almost 4 times the cost of normal carbon and resin combined so if it reduces costs but works just as effectively then cool. Shall play with it later.
also been experimenting with making my own "pre-preg" carbon by wetting out carbon on some plastic sheet and freezing it so it doesnt cure
not the same as proper pre-preg but may be useful for small parts like the gear lever surround to save costs. the decent pre-preg is almost 4 times the cost of normal carbon and resin combined so if it reduces costs but works just as effectively then cool. Shall play with it later.
warrenpenalver
Active member
ok update time!!
I have now made the first surround using normal carbon instead of pre-preg which has succeeded.
Ive also lacquered the part as using normal carbon doesnt give such a good finish so lacquering helps fill in any defects in the surface and gives a brilliant shine.
So the piccies, the part has yet to be trimmed or have the base and fixings added.
Im pleased with the lacquer finish, and despite not using pre-preg the weave isnt too bad. sure the edges where it joins with the cubby hole carbon are a bit rough but thats to be expected! Also there is now NO join line on the back of the surround!!
I have now made the first surround using normal carbon instead of pre-preg which has succeeded.
Ive also lacquered the part as using normal carbon doesnt give such a good finish so lacquering helps fill in any defects in the surface and gives a brilliant shine.
So the piccies, the part has yet to be trimmed or have the base and fixings added.
Im pleased with the lacquer finish, and despite not using pre-preg the weave isnt too bad. sure the edges where it joins with the cubby hole carbon are a bit rough but thats to be expected! Also there is now NO join line on the back of the surround!!
warrenpenalver
Active member
Been making some carbon sheet. Its coming out really well now with a good shine:
Pleased how it is coming out.
Will start on some other moulds/parts soon.
Pleased how it is coming out.
Will start on some other moulds/parts soon.
Reechard
New member
Oooh very nice. How much would you be wanting for carbon sheeting?
Will look better than the fibreglass I was going to use.
Will look better than the fibreglass I was going to use.
warrenpenalver
Active member
yep the prices are all listed in the link in my sig or here: http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=13275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Best you look on there as there are a number of options for you to choose from.
if people are really anal about the weave being perfect then i can buy in a special carbon fabric thats been sprayed lightly on one side with resin (ie partially pre-preg -but allowed to cure) to bind the fabric together meaning the weave stays more straight than using normal fabric.
Best you look on there as there are a number of options for you to choose from.
if people are really anal about the weave being perfect then i can buy in a special carbon fabric thats been sprayed lightly on one side with resin (ie partially pre-preg -but allowed to cure) to bind the fabric together meaning the weave stays more straight than using normal fabric.
PumaJay
Active member
any more carbon bits being made? i want a plate!
warrenpenalver
Active member
lol. Im currently working 16 hour days so not much time at the moment!! half term next week so will do some more.
ScubaSteve
Active member
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
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how much for a 600x600mm sheet
warrenpenalver
Active member
i cant do 600 square. 550 by 600 just about.ScubaSteve said:
what material??? plain carbon, carbon with fibreglass backing? carbon kevlar etc, and what end use so i can work out a suitable thickness?
ScubaSteve
Active member
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Messages
- 3,749
whatever is suitable to make doorcards out of lol but also cheapest!
warrenpenalver
Active member
a layer of carbon for looks and then rest in fibreglass would be cheapest method.ScubaSteve said:
warrenpenalver
Active member
Sorry for not updating for a while but ive been unwell lately!
This project is about remaking a lifeline fire extinguisher mount in carbon. The standard part is pretty light in alloy, but i thought i could do better in carbon!!
Heres a pic of the kind of mount i mean:
First i decided i needed to make flanges. To do this i needed to build a structure around the edge of the extinguisher mount. I used small wooden sticks braced around the edges:
I then covered the flange sticks with waxed card to provide the smooth surface i required.
the yellow stuff is fileting wax. I have used it to smooth and fill any edges as well as fill any holes in the mount.
Next I put 6 layers of mould release wax on the plug ready to make the mould.
First covered it in gel coat:
Then me layering on the carbon wet lay fashion:
All done:
You can see how the mould shape is different. No sharp side for the part to get mechanically locked into the mould so should demould easier. Also put coremat in the layers of carbon to stiffen the mould even further
Once it had cured for 24 hours I then stripped off all the flanges and the supports:
after that it was time to dig out all the wax so i can work up to releasing the part.
Once the wax was out, i used a blunt butter knife and tried to lift the edges of the part to pop out the part. It popped out dead easy!! Proof that good use of mould release agents pays dividends!!
Needs a bit of a fettle here and there around the edge of where the part was as well as the edges trimming. Once trimmed and tidied up the mould looked like this:
Now adding layers of wax to smooth out the mould surface and as a release agent.
All waxed up now and ready to make first mount!! Ive taped it up round the edges ready for the bagging.
Laid all the layers of carbon into the mould:
Then a layer of kevlar:
Now started the bagging stack with the peel ply, release film, infusion mesh and the vacuum/infusion ports.
Next stage is the bagging film then leak testing prior to infusing the resin.
First thing i did was leak testing it using a little flow meter ive got:
its really sensitive and even the tiniest of leaks makes the rotor begin to turn so you can see straight away if things are leaking or not.
leak tested it over night and all was fine so on with the infusion. Here is the setup:
As you can see you can do it on the kitchen table for smaller parts!
Then let the resin flow:
What i do is let some resin flow into the catchpot to take out any traces of air in the resin from mixing it.
If you look carefully you can see the tiny bubbles by the vacuum port as micro bubbles expand as they get full vacuum before being sucked out.
Just got to wait 24hrs for it to cure then i shall have a go at demoulding!!
Demoulded the part! will let the picture do the talking:
Needs the rough edges trimming and sanding, mounting plates sanding where the original had been hammered flat, and the holes cutting out.
ive done most of the rough trimming of the part.:
Anyway got some drill bits and finished the drilling, then went a bit skitzo with the "mini grinder" to trim the holes.
The part was then post cured in the oven for several hours!!
Tidied it all up, sanded edges of the part then given it some coats of lacquer:
just needs to dry properly then a bit of wet sanding and polish, then add the foam and straps!!
All finished and trimmed with the foam and brackets added:
The edges are a bit rough due to cutting kevlar= mission impossible. At least if you crash the shell real hard even if you impact the extinguisher mount itself, it might crack up but the kevlar will hold it in one piece and the extinguisher in position. Maybe a little overkill.
A couple of pics on its own:
Also done a quick weigh in! Original alloy mount 340g, carbon mount 190g so a nice weight saving over standard!!!
This project is about remaking a lifeline fire extinguisher mount in carbon. The standard part is pretty light in alloy, but i thought i could do better in carbon!!
Heres a pic of the kind of mount i mean:
First i decided i needed to make flanges. To do this i needed to build a structure around the edge of the extinguisher mount. I used small wooden sticks braced around the edges:
I then covered the flange sticks with waxed card to provide the smooth surface i required.
the yellow stuff is fileting wax. I have used it to smooth and fill any edges as well as fill any holes in the mount.
Next I put 6 layers of mould release wax on the plug ready to make the mould.
First covered it in gel coat:
Then me layering on the carbon wet lay fashion:
All done:
You can see how the mould shape is different. No sharp side for the part to get mechanically locked into the mould so should demould easier. Also put coremat in the layers of carbon to stiffen the mould even further
Once it had cured for 24 hours I then stripped off all the flanges and the supports:
after that it was time to dig out all the wax so i can work up to releasing the part.
Once the wax was out, i used a blunt butter knife and tried to lift the edges of the part to pop out the part. It popped out dead easy!! Proof that good use of mould release agents pays dividends!!
Needs a bit of a fettle here and there around the edge of where the part was as well as the edges trimming. Once trimmed and tidied up the mould looked like this:
Now adding layers of wax to smooth out the mould surface and as a release agent.
All waxed up now and ready to make first mount!! Ive taped it up round the edges ready for the bagging.
Laid all the layers of carbon into the mould:
Then a layer of kevlar:
Now started the bagging stack with the peel ply, release film, infusion mesh and the vacuum/infusion ports.
Next stage is the bagging film then leak testing prior to infusing the resin.
First thing i did was leak testing it using a little flow meter ive got:
its really sensitive and even the tiniest of leaks makes the rotor begin to turn so you can see straight away if things are leaking or not.
leak tested it over night and all was fine so on with the infusion. Here is the setup:
As you can see you can do it on the kitchen table for smaller parts!
Then let the resin flow:
What i do is let some resin flow into the catchpot to take out any traces of air in the resin from mixing it.
If you look carefully you can see the tiny bubbles by the vacuum port as micro bubbles expand as they get full vacuum before being sucked out.
Just got to wait 24hrs for it to cure then i shall have a go at demoulding!!
Demoulded the part! will let the picture do the talking:
Needs the rough edges trimming and sanding, mounting plates sanding where the original had been hammered flat, and the holes cutting out.
ive done most of the rough trimming of the part.:
Anyway got some drill bits and finished the drilling, then went a bit skitzo with the "mini grinder" to trim the holes.
The part was then post cured in the oven for several hours!!
Tidied it all up, sanded edges of the part then given it some coats of lacquer:
just needs to dry properly then a bit of wet sanding and polish, then add the foam and straps!!
All finished and trimmed with the foam and brackets added:
The edges are a bit rough due to cutting kevlar= mission impossible. At least if you crash the shell real hard even if you impact the extinguisher mount itself, it might crack up but the kevlar will hold it in one piece and the extinguisher in position. Maybe a little overkill.
A couple of pics on its own:
Also done a quick weigh in! Original alloy mount 340g, carbon mount 190g so a nice weight saving over standard!!!
mix2000
Active member
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