Must be a lot of puma timebombs out there

[pyperb]

Whilst I was looking for a puma I must have checked approx 80 ads.....out of that maybe 5-7 had cambelts done which is a very small percentage, some of these had between 80-130 k on the clock.......this is surprising as these were mostly 1.7's and still seemed to be going, how can a car 13-16 years old still be running on the original belt ?

Brian.

 

[Tommy_Puma]

Mines on 101k and im not sure whether mine has been changed... Might do it if I get the spare cash

 

[748]

Not everyone who owns a Puma is an enthusiast, so when they are advised to get the cambelt changed at a cost of £300-400....time to sell.
Looking at it from another angle, if a 15 year old car has cambelt changes up to date then it will most likely be owned by an enthusiast not wanting to sell it.
But there are some cars out there with 100k miles and no history of replacement. Who's to say if driven without being constantly thrashed they won't do another 100k.
I think most engines which are scrapped due to cam belt/tensioner failure are a result of recent botched replacements.
As stated in another thread...don't panic

 

[Catweasel]

Mine has been changed twice with less than 40k on the clock - guess I am an enthusiast or a spendthrift !

 

[pyperb]

less than 40k but at over 10 years old youve done the right thing :grin: but maybe you are loaded with money also :grin:

 

[gingerdave]

Because most buyers want a cheap(£400 £500 ) old banger run it for a year if it gets knocked back on mot for corrosion or cambelt snaps bin it and get another.That's why so many are scrapped each year.

 

[dingwells1985]

Yes its a big cost £300-£400 for a cambelt change but if you intend to keep the puma for a few years its worth it otherwise get a cheap one and take the risk,I got my cambelt done a month after buying the car as the former owners mother did not know if the belt had been changed on the car or had an invoice for the work which had been done.

 

[Frank]

[post]345618[/post] Whilst I was looking for a puma I must have checked approx 80 ads.....out of that maybe 5-7 had cambelts done which is a very small percentage, some of these had between 80-130 k on the clock.......this is surprising as these were mostly 1.7's and still seemed to be going, how can a car 13-16 years old still be running on the original belt ?

This applies to all cars really, although I must say I was surprised as well. Even allowing for a safety margin, how come these belts are not all snapping away after 15 years when the Ford recommended Puma 1.7 cambelt change interval is 5 years / 80,000 miles (130,000km)? No idea, all you can do is to advise people of that recommendation and let them get on with it.

I suppose what people do about it is like anything else and just depends on their judgement, personality or budget. Like anything else on the Internet you'll always get extremes of views ranging from the guy who changes his (it's always a he) once a week, whether it needs it or not, right through to Mr Just Fine and the 'Lot of nonsense, never changed mine in 20 years and car runs just fine!' post. One thing is for sure, if you end up standing up at the side of the motorway, you'll get a 'Sorry to hear that' from the first and Mr Just Fine will have vanished.

In my own case when I got my Puma, I decided after a few weeks that it was a keeper (it was only supposed to be a cheap runaround until I found a 'proper' car) and knew it had never had a belt change, I hit the forums and was glad I did, because that was where I found out that these 1.7's need far more specialist treatment on their cambelt changes than most other vehicles. A drag just because there's not that many specialists out there.

I went here - http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?p=125437#p125437) and spoke to JD Cambelts, who is a great guy. He advised me of this long cooling down period requirement prior to fitting and also that Fords had a special low price servicing deal on at the time and that they were a lot closer to me than he was. I contacted my local Ford main dealer, who I knew was good anyway, and spoke to the service manager and the guy knew his stuff and also pointed out that they let the car sit there for 3 hours+ before starting and to get there early. I suppose I could have pointed out that Mr Just Fine had put his Puma into a steel furnace immediately prior to having his belt done and his car drove just fine afterwards, but decided not to.

Job was done. Done right for less than £300 and 2.5 years later still runs great. People make their own luck and choices in these things, I reckon.

 

[redexr]

We bought my wifes Thunder in Jan 2011 with 29K on the clock. Full service history but no cambelt change so I had it done as part of the sale by the garage. Now 5 years later the car has still only done 34K and I'm now expected to get the belt changed again !!! I'm seriously thinking of letting it go another year at least given the car will only have done another 2K at most. It only gets used April - October as wifes toy.

Our red 02 runabout cost me £375 with lots of history, but only had the belt done in 2014 at 85K, now on 96K.

 

[pyperb]

great feedback guys, sound explanations :

Frank, I'm curious, if you came to the conclusion that your proposed runabout was not as good as you have said would you have got the belt done ? great price from Ford, I wonder how often these deals come along, I saw another puma member mention they got this deal also.

Red, same question to you, would you have got the belt done on your red puma if it wasn't already as you paid a small price initially for the car ?

Brian.

 

[Frank]

Frank, I'm curious, if you came to the conclusion that your proposed runabout was not as good as you have said would you have got the belt done ? great price from Ford, I wonder how often these deals come along, I saw another puma member mention they got this deal also.

The simple answer is no. I knew nothing about these cars before I bought it, just that they were reliable and cheap to run. I didn't even know what it looked liked really (I'd noticed that even cars that I knew looked rubbish, seemed to look OK in photos)

The original plan was to run it for 6 months max and then get rid once I had bought the right car. So no, no way would I have spent out £300 on a motor than I'd paid less that £800 for and wasn't keeping.

My Puma turned out to be a far better car in far better condition than I would have expected, so the plan changed.

Not sure about the Ford special deals stuff, generally I keep well clear of main dealers.

 

[pyperb]

The Thunder I am collecting looked good in the photos, year MOT, MOT history looks grand, but I am no mechanic, quite the opposite (IT geek ) but have been studying this site over the past few weeks and have learned what to check, I want to do the cambelt etc but having time to evaluate since laying down the deposit I may take a similar approach to your original strategy.

I will bring puma back to Ireland if all my checks go ok then drop it into an experienced trusted mechanic and get the low down on how good it is and projected lifespan ..... if report is good I will book her in, if it's a bucket in disguise then will run it until I find a prestine example....maybe and I am hoping this thunder is going to be a beaut but I know I am throwing the dice a bit.

 

[KoNLaR]

I think oil is a bigger problem, lots of people never check their oil or even know how to do it! Watched a clip of a guy going around a parking lot asking people if they check their oil, he then asked if they would like him to check and get a fillup if needed. One guy even said no he never checks and he doesn't want to check it either! haha hopefully he learns his lesson soon. A girl also took the dipstick, opened the fill port and put it down there hahaha. Anyways many needed a fillup so I think thats a bigger problem, than people not getting their cambelt done.

 

[andrewjeffs]

bought my 2001 puma with 20-odd K on the clock last year.
Guy was a bit of a dick.he said it was mint..it wasn't..it had bubbling on one arch..he said car had no rust.
However,the car was still in very good nick for a 14+ year old car,and I had traveled by train hundreds of miles to get there,so I took a chance.
When I later checked his paper work,he had only had 2 oil changes,in 6 years,still on original rear tyres,clutch,original front brakes,shocks,leads,plugs,coil etc.
Infact,one of the plugs was snapped clean in half,so how it even run,i don't know.
It also had never had a cambelt ever.

I think,because his wife only drove 2 miles a day to work,he thought that meant it didn't need any work.
Would you let your wife drive around in a car with 14 year old brake pads and tyres!?

However 12 months plus down the line,the car is in rude health,not burning a drop of oil,and running like a dream with all the above now changed.
Engine took months to free up in the higher rev range,but now she flys.

Obviously tough engines.

 

[redexr]

[post]345645[/post] great feedback guys, sound explanations :


Red, same question to you, would you have got the belt done on your red puma if it wasn't already as you paid a small price initially for the car ?

Brian.

Given how cheap the car was I doubt I'd have paid my garage to do it, but I may have had a go myself and learn how to do it as we intend to keep the Thunder for a long time so would be nice to save a bit on that. I can do the XR2 CVH cambelts in my sleep but they are 8 valve and much simpler with good access.

I have one big question on this issue though.

Has anyone had or know of anyone who has had a 1.7 cambelt actually snap at a reasonable mileage...forget 150K and no belt done as that's just asking for it. ???

 

[tuonokid]

It's not just the cambelt that goes, the tensioner can fail as well causing the same damage.
Barry

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

[post]345691[/post]

Has anyone had or know of anyone who has had a 1.7 cambelt actually snap at a reasonable mileage...forget 150K and no belt done as that's just asking for it. ???

Bearing in mind it is essentially a Japanese engine (developed by Yamaha) from beginning of 90's I'd say it is impossible for the original cambelt to snap. I have seen loads and loads of japanese cars from that era whose engine had skipped the adviced replacement period for the timing belt (even to the factor of 2!) and NEVER a single belt snapped. NEVER. Sometimes they were worn down to just few cords and threads, but were still doing their job.
It will be always something else that kills the engine. Usually it will be the tensioner failure or sometimes, as the timing belt is worn to the last thread it would slip from the pulley.
Timing belts are stronger than chains, that is a fact of life. You can use the old timing belt and use it to tow a car or lift the entire engine-gearbox assembly out of the engine bay.

Having said all that, I am obssesed with my engine health and replace the oil at every 10tkm (instead of recommended 15tkm) and do all the other things that are needed to keep it in good health.

But, as it is documented on another topic on this forum, have seen a puma with 409000 km on its clock and the engine was runnning very nicely indeed. No work done on that engine of any kind, and with irregular maintenance...

 

[redexr]

I had to get my land rover serviced yesterday and next door was the main ford dealer so I went in and asked about the cambelt. They have a mechanic/technician who's been servicing fords there since the early 80's and he insists the timescale is 10 years, I can't remember the mileage limit but may be 120K. He's never seen or heard of a puma with a snapped cambelt. Unlike the old cvh belts which seemed to like snapping at 35K..1K short of the change mileage.

 

[The Arch Bishop]

It's not always the cam belt that goes though. Quite often, it's the tensioner that fails, throwing the belt. Certainly belts are strong, but the tensioner has bearings that are fallible. Also, many owners will have had the belt done on the cheap where the belt is changed but the tensioner is not.

Ultimately, it's luck of the draw I guess!

 

[john & Jake the dog]

Hi, do the warnings and advice apply equally to my little 1.4.