Rolls in corners - remedy?

[sickaroll]

I took my Puma to a track training day, which had about an hour of really belting around, and I noticed that when I threw it into a corner too fast (the hairpin kept surprising me), the car felt like it was going to roll over!

In terms of potential remedies, I concede I don't really know the effect of each of the following:
1) Strut braces (upper, lower, front, rear- seems you could have 3 without interfering with internal space
2) New suspension; loads of options; some that cost more than the car
3) racing seat to hold me in a bit better - again, some cost as much as I paid for the car

I'd like the ride on the road to be better than my current set-up (it's very crashy over bumps, and I'm using 15" Toyo T1Rs @33psi), but I would like it to roll less in the corners. The bushes may well be worn, hopefully the mounts are intact though.

Can't afford much right now, but in July I plan to spend a few quid getting everything right, any suggestions as to how I might achieve a better ride would be much appreciated.

 

[Cherie]

The only way to eliminate roll is to lower the car (thereby lowering the centre of gravity) which usually comes hand-in-hand with a stiffer suspension.

 

[Shimmyhill]

I have found the Toyo's with their sidewalls of cheese really add to the feeling of roll and would imagine a stiffer side walled tyre would also help - mine is polybushed (bar the rear thats on new std ford ones) with new dampers and eibach springs and there isn't a huge amount of roll before you hit understeer.

The ride on mine is much harsher than std and i wouldn't want to do a long commute in it everyday (mine is a mere 11 miles each way)

 

[sickaroll]

So lowering isn't just a styling thing then?
I'm a bit concerned that my winter tyres won't fit if I lower it, it's a tight squeeze as it is (165/65/15).
Is there such a thing, within the affordable realm, as suspension you can easily adjust on an ad-hoc basis? Like before I go to the track or for a hoon about?

I really want to avoid making it harsher if possible, it's my only car, and we drive it 3.5 hours each way on the motorway a couple of times a month to see the in-laws.

 

[JonB]

If you are up for a lot of work you can change the anti-roll bar for a thicker one, the standard is 16mm and bigger one is 18mm.

 

[sickaroll]

iPod cables, airbox mode, brakes, sure, but the hard stuff is getting done by a pro, so thicker anti-roll bars are a possibility.
Called my insurance company today, they were ok about replacement parts, so long as the parts aren't of inferior quality.
Semi-coilovers look about right for my budget, I'll ask my mechanic/cousin what he reckons, get a load of stuff done together.

What are the benefits of strut braces? I've read about 'stiffness' but it doesn't mean a lot to me.

 

[Ian G]

Strut brace stiffens the mounting points for the suspension, making it work more effectively.

Roll is influenced by a number of things - tyres, suspension (both stiffness and centre of gravity) , anti-roll bar, weight distribution, weight transfer due to your driving style etc. etc. many things and basically all of the suggestions thus far will change things.

If you want to reduce roll then you can work at all of those things although do bear in mind a little roll is good because it makes the car predictable. If you reduce it too far then the amount of notice that you are losing grip is also reduced. The level of grip is not increased as such, you just make better use of the grip that you have because you're not asking quite so much of the tyres on the outside of the bend.

One other point about adjustable suspension - not the best idea for frequent changes because it alters the toe setting of the front wheels due to the height of the rack relative to the other suspension components. Every time you change ride height you will need to re-track the car.

Its also always a compromise - suspension moving about on a road car is a good thing because it makes the car comfortable and able to deal with road surfaces and conditions. If you prep for track you almost always lose some of the niceties of it being a road car. The question is how much of that you can tolerate in order to make the car more capable on a track.

In reality, it's not a massive price to pay - the car is already set up to be nimble so you didn't really have massive amounts of comfort to begin with and a good quality set of matched springs and dampers won't give you instant back pain. Most of the time poor ride quality with lowered suspension is caused by the springs being too short for the dampers, which causes the damper to bottom out. Not only does that give you a crashy ride but it'll all contribute to the damper failing early.

Basically a good set of matched springs and dampers is a good starting point, see how you feel after that.

 

[sickaroll]

Thanks a million for the very comprehensive reply; what I'd read was pushing me in the direction of a matched set, seems it's the only way to go. Not in a massive rush, and as you say, I don't plan to get out on the track very other weekend, it's a pricey business, and for the most part seems to happen on weekdays, getting the time off work is just as hard.
2-3 track-type events a year don't warrant compromising the ride the other 362 days I suppose.
Ideally, I'd be loaded, with a massive garage, with a puma for going around, and a Lotus of some sort for track days!

 

[sickaroll]

Well, set of 3 strut braces (front upper and lower, rear lower) ordered, should be fitted next weekend, will put up pictures as I go.

 

[ScubaSteve]

If your car is rolling excessively I'd consider visiting the standard components, the car as standard doesn't roll a great deal unless somethings worn

 

[slayllian]

maybe the springs have softened in their old age. I always seem to be getting softer the older I get :wink: