ST170 Brakes on a Puma

[SLEEMAN]

Hey guys

right the first major modification on the puma I'll be doing is a full set of ST170 brakes front and rear.

I have had a good read on the forums about rear brakes about how they may or may not work etc etc

however I've got them for a bargain price and for the track car conversion upgrading them is important

all I need to know is

do I need to buy a different handbrake cable for the rears?

will the standard puma hoses fit the ST170 calipers? if so i'll be replacing the with goodridge hoses

 

[tuonokid]

Hi
You need a ST150 Fiesta handbrake cable, as for the Goodridges I could never get them to work to my satisfaction on the front so I used them on the rear with new standard rubber hoses on the front.
Even though I bled my brakes properly the pedal feel is not what I expected, there's quite a bit of speculation on here but it sounds like swapping the servo and master cylinder for an early Mondeo one gives you the desired pedal feel and power.
Barry

PS You'll need 16" at least wheels to fit the front brakes to

 

[ArtfulHussy]

As above. I have the full set up and the pedal is quite hard but I actually like it. I don't have any tc or abs. I think I knackered a sensor or didn't set them up right at the hubs. I had to splice the rear sensors to the rear wiring harness as well.

 

[SLEEMAN]

to me the abs/tc doesn't really matter if it works or not

I've got a set of lightweight pro race alloy wheels 15 inch, luckily enough the st170 front brakes just fit!! no grinding required for certain!

so just need the st150 handbrake cable hopefully shouldn't be too hard to find!

so in terms of braided hoses what is better with fitment, HEL or Goodridge?

 

[ArtfulHussy]

I had to get custom length lines. I can't remember what company they were form. Found them on ebay. Seem very good quality though.

 

[SLEEMAN]

so is there nothing off the shelf that will fit into the calipers?

 

[tuonokid]

There's lots of lines that will fit the Puma but whether they work or not is another problem. If you can get hold of a braided line try to twist it between your hands and see what happens. Then look at the layout of the standard line to avoid the drop link and the hose bracket and if you intend to use the standard hose bracket to clamp the line don't forget that the caliper is further out than standard so you need to weld an extension on. If you dispense with ABS you also lose brake bias as well. It's a minefield and that's why I chose the standard hoses for the front and to retain ABS.
Barry

 

[SLEEMAN]

ok that's some food for thought will very much consider it all! thank you for your help!!

 

[moondustka]

Custom lines are not expensive. You can make your own for not too much money. Cheaper than buying a set.

Rally design will make you some with the correct ends and length. They usually just say put the original line in the post to them with a note and say how much longer you want them.

I kept the ABS and it's all working too, same as Barry.

 

[Jamesgti14]

I did the ST170 front upgrade with ST220 callipers. I was impressed at first, but.not.with the feel of the pedal. I fitted drilled and grooved discs (brembo). However after just a month the discs are warped already, and only.been used on the roads. Haven't been speeding but don't recommend heavy braking (heard the abs trying to kick in a few times from 70 mph - 0 at roundabouts etc...) so if you hear it kicking in at speed then let go of the pedal a bit or you'll end up warped. I've got mondeo mk 2 servo coming to hopefully make the pedal firmer.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Have you actually measured the discs to konw for a fact that they are warped, or you feel vibrations and thus concluded they were warped? Prior to install of the calipers, have you dismantled them completely and replaced all the seals and possibly pistons?
My guess is that they are sticking a bit and keep the pad pressed onto the disc. In longer run that leaves some deposit on discs and you get vibrations and feel like disc is warped.
If you have a mountain road go on drive and on downhill brake all the time, not to strongly, but moderate. That will clear the discs and most probably get rid of vibrations for a while.

 

[Jamesgti14]

I assumed they're warped as whenever I touch the brake pedal at 60mph+ I get quite a wobbly steering wheel. I read somewhere the Mondeo callipers can warp the ST170 discs as they're a bit thin for those callipers however they can't be that much thinner than the mondeo.ones ?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

No, that is wrong. Both discs are 300 OD and thickness when new is 23.9 mm for mondeo ones (5 holes) and 24 mm for ST170. Both are to be replaced when their thicknes reaches 22 mm

 

[Jamesgti14]

OK! I fitted the MK2 Mondeo Master Cylinder and servo today, What a pig. I had to make brakes lines from the ABS Pump to the master Cylinder and I got the Cylinder with 4 ports through the post so had to Blank 2 of them off with proper Blankers for master cylinders. I tried the Mondeo servo with the puma master cylinder first and then pedal just travelled way down to the ground it was awful so ended up fitting the Mondeos master cylinder aswell! so for those attempting this in the future, trim the top left corner of the battery tray (closest to the Brake line).

 

[Jamesgti14]

And sure enough discs were warped ! Changed them again.... no more wobble

 

[SLEEMAN]

james, the Mondeo servo simply bolts on no modifying required??

 

[moondustka]

Weird, I've never even been able to make the ABS work like that. Never experience the ABS working with normal or spirited driving.

 

[mihalyn90]

[post]355642[/post] I did the ST170 front upgrade with ST220 callipers. I was impressed at first, but.not.with the feel of the pedal. I fitted drilled and grooved discs (brembo). However after just a month the discs are warped already, and only.been used on the roads. Haven't been speeding but don't recommend heavy braking (heard the abs trying to kick in a few times from 70 mph - 0 at roundabouts etc...) so if you hear it kicking in at speed then let go of the pedal a bit or you'll end up warped. I've got mondeo mk 2 servo coming to hopefully make the pedal firmer.

because brembo does NOT make grooved and drilled disks...

be either blanks, cross-drilled, or slotted. No combination of cross-drilled and slotted. The drilled or slotted discs are coated in a zinc/cadmium plating to help prevent rust and ensure disc longevity.

 

[Jamesgti14]

[post]355943[/post] james, the Mondeo servo simply bolts on no modifying required??

No it doesn't, mine came from an ST24 and if you simply just.bolt it on.then the battery box is fouled by the brake pipe going into the mastere cylinder which wouldn't go.in unless you make a new pipe or magically bend your.original pipes (good luck with that), seeing as the puma's original pipes go into the left hand side of the master cylinder and moneo's is on the right hand side. By master cylinder came also from the st24 and had 4 ports on it rather than just 2 so I had to block the other 2 off with grub screws specifically for master cylinders. So it did require modifying

 

[Jamesgti14]

[post]356122[/post]

[post]355642[/post] I did the ST170 front upgrade with ST220 callipers. I was impressed at first, but.not.with the feel of the pedal. I fitted drilled and grooved discs (brembo). However after just a month the discs are warped already, and only.been used on the roads. Haven't been speeding but don't recommend heavy braking (heard the abs trying to kick in a few times from 70 mph - 0 at roundabouts etc...) so if you hear it kicking in at speed then let go of the pedal a bit or you'll end up warped. I've got mondeo mk 2 servo coming to hopefully make the pedal firmer.

because brembo does NOT make grooved and drilled disks...

be either blanks, cross-drilled, or slotted. No combination of cross-drilled and slotted. The drilled or slotted discs are coated in a zinc/cadmium plating to help prevent rust and ensure disc longevity.

I was supposed to write Grooved and vented, not drilled and grooved. My bad :-D