Suspect water pump?

[CherryVimto]

So, after having cooling issues:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23092
I've changed the thermostat (new from Ford) but still doesn't seem to be any change....

- Dash reads 100degs but pipe from thermostat to radiator luke warm at thermostat end, cold at radiator end
- Right end top thermostat hose cold, other end by block hot
- Radiator cold each end
- Feed and return pipes to heater matrix hot (both sides of HCV)
- Heater in car cold
Radiator fan Turns on, on low speed.

Cap left off expansion tank
Pipes squeezed

Now I'm suspecting the water pump is shot and not pumping coolant round the system.....?

Thoughts please........

 

[cj2013]

So, after having cooling issues:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23092
I've changed the thermostat (new from Ford) but still doesn't seem to be any change....

- Dash reads 100degs but pipe from thermostat to radiator luke warm at thermostat end, cold at radiator end
- Right end top thermostat hose cold, other end by block hot
- Radiator cold each
- Feed and return pipes to heater matrix hot (both sides of HCV)
- Heater in car cold
Radiator fan Turns on, on low speed.

Cap left off expansion tank
Pipes squeezed

Now I'm suspecting the water pump is shot and not pumping coolant round the system.....?

Thoughts please........

You can normally check this by either watching the return pipe or looking for the rise/fall in coolant, viewing with the cap off and engine on, revving it. If the pump is weak then you'd be able to notice this, and also if the h/g is causing a coolant circulation issue

 

[martinthrapston]

Does the rad get hot,if it dont then rad has failed

 

[CherryVimto]

Does the rad get hot,if it dont then rad has failed

Good point there.....

But, when is drained the coolant, the radiator was full.
The radiator does stay cold at each end. Didn't check the middle of it as the rad fan could potentially turn on without notice!

I filled the system with 3ltrs of Ford pink coolant then topped up with about 1ltr of water to the max level on the header tank after I squeezed pipes.
It remained at that level even while the engine was running and coolant up to 100 degrees.
I gave it a good few revs and squeezed pipes, but coolant level remained the same.

 

[martinthrapston]

Sounds like rad is blocked then.

 

[CherryVimto]

Sounds like rad is blocked then.

Typical... That's exactly what happened to my old Puma when I drained the coolant.

Just checked the coolant level which had dropped, so topped it up again.
Went for a quick drive and now I've got constant heating... that's something!

I'll have the radiator off tomorrow. Just as well I kept the new one off my old Puma!

 

[ElDude at Allison Automotive]

So, after having cooling issues:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23092
I've changed the thermostat (new from Ford) but still doesn't seem to be any change....

- Dash reads 100degs but pipe from thermostat to radiator luke warm at thermostat end, cold at radiator end
- Right end top thermostat hose cold, other end by block hot
- Radiator cold each
- Feed and return pipes to heater matrix hot (both sides of HCV)
- Heater in car cold
Radiator fan Turns on, on low speed.

Cap left off expansion tank
Pipes squeezed

Now I'm suspecting the water pump is shot and not pumping coolant round the system.....?

Thoughts please........

You can normally check this by either watching the return pipe or looking for the rise/fall in coolant, viewing with the cap off and engine on, revving it. If the pump is weak then you'd be able to notice this, and also if the h/g is causing a coolant circulation issue

how can a water pump be deemed 'weak' it's got no choice but to spin.. :lol:

if it's knackered it will squeal in protest and possibly weep through the mating face..but it will still be spinning/pumping the same unless it's so shagged it zapping about 20hp off the engine performance.. :lol:

 

[CherryVimto]

Got my spare radiator and ran water through it, so I know it was definitely clear, then fitted it.

Still no change.....

Checked accessory drive belt, it's on correct and thermostat fitted the correct way round, as per this thread:
How to change the thermostat

 

[stereophoney]

I changed my thermostat and housing about a week ago and I have no idea what you could have done wrong. The only thing I think that can be fitted the wrong way round is the stat, but you've checked that. The pipes to the housing I'm pretty sure can only go on one way and nothing else needed the be touched.

 

[CherryVimto]

Been thinking about this... I'm not convinced about the water pump....

Borrowed this picture from a post by Warren which shows the coolant system layout:

View media item 4519
From that diagram, we can see the direction of flow around the system.
The water around the block heats up the back of the thermostat, which causes it to open.

So, is my thermostat really opening?
Assuming it does open, by squeezing the pipes each side of the radiator, am I not creating a flow of coolant, albeit quite small?
Would the pipe from the thermostat to the radiator not get the slightest bit warm, rather than remaining cold?
Would the pipe from the block to the right end of the radiator get the slightest bit warm on the radiator end?

There is a little hole in the thermostat which houses a tiny ball bearing... Is this supposed to be positioned in a certain place? Like at the top, bottom, left or right?

 

[YOG]

So, after having cooling issues:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23092
I've changed the thermostat (new from Ford) but still doesn't seem to be any change....

- Dash reads 100degs but pipe from thermostat to radiator luke warm at thermostat end, cold at radiator end
- Right end top thermostat hose cold, other end by block hot
- Radiator cold each
- Feed and return pipes to heater matrix hot (both sides of HCV)
- Heater in car cold
Radiator fan Turns on, on low speed.

Cap left off expansion tank
Pipes squeezed

Now I'm suspecting the water pump is shot and not pumping coolant round the system.....?

Thoughts please........

You can normally check this by either watching the return pipe or looking for the rise/fall in coolant, viewing with the cap off and engine on, revving it. If the pump is weak then you'd be able to notice this, and also if the h/g is causing a coolant circulation issue

how can a water pump be deemed 'weak' it's got no choice but to spin.. :lol:

if it's knackered it will squeal in protest and possibly weep through the mating face..but it will still be spinning/pumping the same unless it's so shagged it zapping about 20hp off the engine performance.. :lol:

IIRC, there have been incidents when pump impellers have become loose on their driving shafts. In these cases the impeller would not spin, so there was no coolant circulation, and, in addition, no leaking and no squealing.

 

[cj2013]

So, after having cooling issues:
http://www.projectpuma.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23092
I've changed the thermostat (new from Ford) but still doesn't seem to be any change....

- Dash reads 100degs but pipe from thermostat to radiator luke warm at thermostat end, cold at radiator end
- Right end top thermostat hose cold, other end by block hot
- Radiator cold each
- Feed and return pipes to heater matrix hot (both sides of HCV)
- Heater in car cold
Radiator fan Turns on, on low speed.

Cap left off expansion tank
Pipes squeezed

Now I'm suspecting the water pump is shot and not pumping coolant round the system.....?

Thoughts please........

You can normally check this by either watching the return pipe or looking for the rise/fall in coolant, viewing with the cap off and engine on, revving it. If the pump is weak then you'd be able to notice this, and also if the h/g is causing a coolant circulation issue

how can a water pump be deemed 'weak' it's got no choice but to spin.. :lol:

if it's knackered it will squeal in protest and possibly weep through the mating face..but it will still be spinning/pumping the same unless it's so shagged it zapping about 20hp off the engine performance.. :lol:

A component's strength in this context is measured by it's efficiency, not its kinetic ability.... :roll:

A broken, cracked, worn or even missing impeller will reduce the efficiency of the rotational pumping action and at higher engine speeds this will result in reduced performance when pumping the coolant around the engine.

The demands of a water pump at higher engine speeds are much greater than those of idle speed.

 

[ElDude at Allison Automotive]

ok, so broken cracked and worn blah blah..maybe..but we must be talking about crappy aftermarkets ones here surely...

I did a cambelt, waterpump etc on a black puma over the summer that was still on ALL the original items :lol: lol

The Cambelt tensioner was eating it's way through the cam cover...the waterpump felt old and rough but no actual physical damage to it like that ... iv'e also seen the mess caused by not ever changing the coolant for 10+ years...it's horrendous!.. the whole waterways all the way round the pipes and engine are just a nasty dark orangy brown colour from all the rust contaminant and particles.. :evil: :evil:

crazy for such an easy job to do once every few years

 

[cj2013]

ok, so broken cracked and worn blah blah..maybe..but we must be talking about crappy aftermarkets ones here surely...

I did a cambelt, waterpump etc on a black puma over the summer that was still on ALL the original items :lol: lol

The Cambelt tensioner was eating it's way through the cam cover...the waterpump felt old and rough but no actual physical damage to it like that ... iv'e also seen the mess caused by not ever changing the coolant for 10+ years...it's horrendous!.. the whole waterways all the way round the pipes and engine are just a nasty dark orangy brown colour from all the rust contaminant and particles.. :evil: :evil:

crazy for such an easy job to do once every few years

Without actually removing the water pump, how can anyone know except for the person who installed the water pump whether it is OE or aftermarket?

Just because you had a water pump on one occasion which had no shaft or impeller damage does not mean that it doesn't happen.

It's far more productive to provide cherryvimto with suggestions as to what may be causing the problem, as was originally asked. I'm sure she's more concerned with that than having non-constructive comments.


On topic, it may be constructive to remove the thermostat for now and see if the problem dissipates. It will run cooler without a thermostat, but it will be warm enough to rule out the thermostat.

Generally, in terms of coolant flow, potential causes are:

Components:

- Faulty/Incorrect thermostat or installation
- Blocked radiator core
- Faulty water pump (for reasons previously listed)

Also, it is not impossible for the heater matrix to cause a blockage

Contributing causes:

- Airlock (caused by system leak to a gasket at water pump or water jacket; can be first signs of HGF)
- Recirculation or foreign substance; by this, if someone at some point has bunged in some leak fix stuff (Radweld etc.) this could be causing a blockage.

I have a similar issue at the moment where the car runs fine when driven normally, but if driven in a spirited way the engine overheats rapidly.

I plan to take the engine out soon as I have a big pile of genuine parts to do an overhaul, so if you don't get it sorted i'll be able to tell you what the issue was from mine and it may help

 

[CherryVimto]

I'm sure she's he's more concerned with that than having non-constructive comments.

k:

The radiator is a know good one as it was new on my old Puma a few months before it got scrapped. I also flushed it through before I fitted it yesterday so I know it's clear.

Luckily I've got a spare, know good heater matrix which I had considered putting in, even if just to rule it out, but bearing in mind, I've had heating in the car so would suspect the heater matrix is Ok.

Will take thermostat out and also look at the impeller of the pump to see if there is anything immediately obvious in there.

Thanks for the help so far....

 

[cj2013]

I'm sure she's he's more concerned with that than having non-constructive comments.

k:

My bad....

I assumed that the username was a bit camp girly more feminine that normal

 

[alexwilliams840]

Gonna have to be a water pump change to determine whether it's the cause.

Haven't read all the posts in depth but it does sound like the water pump is in fact not pumping much and I'm presuming the coolant level doesn't decrease rapidly?

 

[CherryVimto]

Once I had ran it a few times, the coolant has remained constant.

 

[alexwilliams840]

I'm betting the water pump is on its arse then, do you know when it was last changed?

 

[CherryVimto]

Don't have a clue! Probably the original knowing my luck!