Weird diesel like sound on idle

[JiiHu]

My Puma has this weird, almost diesel like sound on idle. About 60-70% times I start it, it sounds a little like a diesel engine. If I rev the engine, you can't detect the sound anymore, but I think this is just due to a risen engine noise. After I have driven couple of kilometres and the engine warms, the sound usually goes away or it is much harder to notice it. Sometimes when I start the car, it sounds just like it should sound; smooth and not like diesel at all. I also think that the engine feels little bit more responsive when this happens. Is this just normal or am I being just paranoid as usual? I was very paranoid about weird whining sound which came from my old Peugeot but I drove 10k with it and had no problems and the sound never changed. Maybe this is just like that?

I shot a video of this sound, which is unfortunately quite bad and it doesn't sound just like that in real life. But if you guys want, I can shoot better video some day.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Euswti4VLQ[/youtube]

 

[red]

Sounds a bit like tappets to me. Has it always been like this?

Tappets are known to get noisier gradually over time,

 

[JiiHu]

I think it has been. I think I first paid attention to this like two months ago? You need to listen carefully to notice this inside the car, if the fan is blowing and radio is on, you can't notice this.

I forgot the mention that Puma is 1998 1.7 and it has driven 190k/120m.

 

[mix2000]

Sometimes a worn water pump makes them sound like a diesel.
Obviously when it warms up the noise changes.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Could also be a knackered ISCV and its dropping the idle rev down, most likely to get a bounce in revs with that though.

 

[Blue3]

My original puma started doing that at 60k I pxd it within a week as I thought it was going to die, interestingly it is still going 10 years on. Doesn't help much, but if it is the same issue not terminal.

 

[JiiHu]

In fact, that helped quite much since now I can think that this is just normal and I don't have to worry so much about this
But if anyone else has any guesses I'm happy to hear them! I also tried to shoot better video just now but engine didn't keep this sound as big as it usually does so maybe "better" luck next time.

 

[jimfrp88]

Sounds like a combination of the cam followers and the injectors to me.

If it was my car I'd treat it to a good service and a nice long run out :thumbs:

 

[JiiHu]

Here is the video I shot earlier. The sound is clearly bigger here than it was in real life so maybe this is helpful, eventhough it is almost like the first video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58gPBvtB9E[/youtube]

Maybe I'll go to Ford specialist as soon as possible and ask their opinion about this.

 

[JiiHu]

I asked about this from car repair shop and they said that sound isn't alarming yet. If I translated their sayings correctly, this has something to do with tappets as red said. They also said that it might help if engine flush would be done with Forte when oils are changed. I think I'll try that when oils are changed next time.

 

[cj2013]

Sounds like bad clearances, which are designed to be eliminated by the hydraulic followers (or, as they were called before they were called followers, tappets). These automatically adjust the clearances using oil flowing through the little 'buckets' and sometimes can get clogged causing these symptoms.

Problem with the 1.7 ZSE engine is that they used solid shims instead of hydraulic followers, so none of the above information really applies. This means that the clearances are out and would need 'shimming' manually. You'd find a disc with a measurement on it under each bucket, I used to 5 finger finance a load from a scrap yard on older cars and then just match them up as to what size I needed :lol:

Because of this, engine flush will do nothing but add an unnecessary expense in my opinion..

here's a diagram I've found and edited. The sound is the sound of the cam hitting the bucket due to excessive clearances

 

[JiiHu]

Thanks for the very good answer! Do you think this sound on my Puma isalarming or not? Should I take my Puma to car repair shop so that they could fix this? Is it big job to fix this? Would it be good that repair shop would know something about VCT engine or is it just the same where I'll take it? Because atleast cam belt was recommended to be changed by someone who knows little bit more about VCT engine, if I understood correctly.

 

[cj2013]

It's not alarming.

As long as the oil level is good, it shouldn't be an issue, but if you're really worried, open the oil filler cap (or even remove the cam cover) and see if it looks like the oil is getting to the top of the engine. It's not impossible that the pump might be weak and not distributing the oil enough, but it's unlikely I guess.

A test would be to take the cover off, dribble some oil over the working parts, replace cover, see if it's quieter.

Did I read that you'd recently bought the car? I'd be more concerned that perhaps maybe it's a side effect of a hidden problem but this is all the "worst case scenario".


In the event that it's just noise from the followers, I wouldn't really be bothered unless you're concerned that people will think you've got an Endura-E engine (Valencia 1.3 engine that was in the early fiestas and Ka).

If you ever get the cambelt done, you could get them seen to then as it would involve a belt change as best course anyway

 

[JiiHu]

Did I read that you'd recently bought the car? I'd be more concerned that perhaps maybe it's a side effect of a hidden problem but this is all the "worst case scenario".

I bought the car in the beginning of the summer and I have driven 7k ever since. Car wasn't used very much on last two years before I bought it. Cambelt was changed about 25-30k ago. I changed oils 3k ago and today I filled it with 3-4dl oil, but I think this is just normal oil consumption since the engine is driven 190k/120m.

What could be a hidden problem which would cause this kind of sound?

A test would be to take the cover off, dribble some oil over the working parts, replace cover, see if it's quieter.

Do you mean that I would buy a new cover or just put the old one back?

 

[cj2013]

Don't worry, if you done quite a bit of mileage then I wouldn't be concerned.

By the 'cover' I mean the "rocker cover", and take it off, dribble some oil or inspect, and put it back on

 

[JiiHu]

Cool, thanks! Your answers helped a lot!