200bhp how hard is it???

[benking]

how hard, how much and what would i need to do to achieve 200bhp from a 1.7????????????????? any ideas

 

[red]

A lot of work.

From what i've heard the best results/cost would be to go down the NOS route.

 

[BOK]

200 reliable BHP?...about £5000, a knowledgable mechanic, a turbo and a shedload of customised engine bits.

Well that's just one way...but not the way I'd do it personally speaking :lol:

Don't forget to do something about the standard brakes which were designed for a diesel Fiesta van.

 

[jacko]

er.... throttle bodies are a few grand, pectel ecu is a few more, er...... what else did they do to th rally car? that had 205bhp or something....

dont believe all that drivel on the other forum where the guy selling nos says 'unstressed'! HA! nos is basically liquid oxygen; liquid is more dense than gas.... so its basically putting more oxygen in the engine....for a bigger bang....

what happens when you put the boost up on a turbo; more gas, more pressure..... either one is gona stress the engine.....

with na tuning the main stress is extracting higher power from higher revs; so you'l need a tough crank & rods; £2500 should do.....

na will rev itself to death, nos & turbos will melt engines....

you cant overbore the 1.7, maybe you could stroke the crank to get more displacement.... personally if you go for frp bits and have the head flowed you should see 170bhp fingers crossed & being a little optimistic

my man does a headflow for £600 but your looking at £1000 most places, add a small nitros shot maybe.....

i wouldnt; run that for 2 years & itl cost you the same as fitting a turbo or doing it properly the first time..... either way its hard to do; there just arent the bolt on bits out there for the puma

you could rip off the air con pump & fit a supercharger from a new mini tho; thatd b fun!!!! but again; hard work! keep the boost low & you may even get away with stock internals (same principle using a small turbo) as the 1.7s compression ratio isnt mega. its the first thing they do when na flowing the head; skim the head to 'up the boost'! na style

running on lpg with an ecu to match will see you gain 5 to 10bhp at a guess; lpg is 114 ron versus 98 unleaded

or fit a v6.....heeheheheheheh (my project) but dont try it; it doesnt fit! yet!

 

[BOK]

Rally cars get serviced very often and rebuilt before each rally. Not something you want to have to do on a road car every few months! And that power is produced right at the very top end with little thought to tractability in traffic, fuel economy or having to idle for long periods.

As for turbos melting engine bits that's down to a bad choice of components and/or a poor setup. Plenty of road cars are turboed from the factory and suffer no such problems, many easily and reliably producing 200bhp from 1.8 litres yet with long service intervals.

If I realise my dream engine/tranny for my Milly it'll produce around 270bhp at the top end but still crack 35mpg though not at the same time! And not weigh hardly more than it is now = decent handling. But I need the money and expertise to make it happen...

 

[Dal]

If I realise my dream engine/tranny for my Milly it'll produce around 270bhp at the top end but still crack 35mpg though not at the same time! And not weigh hardly more than it is now = decent handling. But I need the money and expertise to make it happen...

Mixing Type R goodness and a Rear wheel drive Puma?

 

[Cherie]

what else did they do to th rally car? that had 205bhp or something....

Wasn't the rally car a 1.6 too, as the 1.7 is not as flexible when it comes to modifying it?

 

[DradusContact]

All that basically means dont do it, buy something else if you want 200hp!

 

[benking]

would be fun though, be even more of a go kart then

 

[DradusContact]

150hp is a more realistic target. The only way your going to get 200hp in is if you swap the engine. It can be done, there is a cossie puma out there (see the ford fair pics) but adding weight to the front end will ruin the handling.

 

[red]

The Cossie Puma is mental though; something more along the lines of the ST duratech might be better although still heavier than the zetec.

I agree it would be fun but then I don't think the 1.7 can achieve 200Bhp without throwing a whole lot of cash at it at which point you may as well have just put in a new engine for less money....

You could get about 170/180 out of it i reckon though if you base you starting point on the FRP setup i.e. racing cams, 4 branch manifold, ecu remap (bluefin/dreamscience etc) with a less restrictive exhaust and better cold air feed into the filter I think you'd be off to a good start! (Some weight saving probably wouldn't go amiss bye bye spare wheel etc)

 

[BOK]

Toby and Lisas (from PP1) Puma still runs the original 1700 Puma engine block but with heavily uprated internals and a large turbo, all properly setup to produce 270BHP+ reliably. It's still front wheel drive but has anti-lag, launch control and a Quaife diff.

Most importantly it's lighter than a standard 1.7 Puma- it's built within the sprint regulations. IIRC it did 0-100 in 12 seconds and that was in the early days before the boost was turned up.

Engine reportedly cost £12k to build but it takes a very determined and skilled EVO/Scooby/Noble driver to live with it on the track It's been the quickest in it's class for ages.

It's the ultimate Puma sleeper...I've been in it and it made the RS Focus FRP feel a bit slow.

Proof of the pudding: video of it on a sprint, damp Castle Combe
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ7undBETjI[/youtube]

I'm not a fan of the 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' type thing when it come to mods

 

[Dal]

I love Toby's puma. I was lucky enough to be behind it (as you were next to it Col) at Castle Combe last July. Probably would have given anything on the track that day a run for it's money.

 

[DradusContact]

doesnt look that quick............

yeah right :shock:

 

[Peter]

dont believe all that drivel on the other forum where the guy selling nos says 'unstressed'! HA! nos is basically liquid oxygen; liquid is more dense than gas.... so its basically putting more oxygen in the engine....for a bigger bang....

what happens when you put the boost up on a turbo; more gas, more pressure..... either one is gona stress the engine.....

NOS is not "basically" liquid oxygen, you were wrong on the other forum and you're still wrong here I'm afraid.

What Trev said is true, a properly set up NOS system is not going to add extra strain to an engine in the same way that increasing the rev limiter by 1000RPM will, as the inertia loadings on the rotating components are in proportion to their velocity.

NOS is also substantially different to a turbo setup, whereas a turbo is going to increase your charge temps as you are compressing the air, NOS is actually going to significantly lower them, as the liquid vapourises you get a huge amount of cooling. It is not just a case of pumping more gas into the cylinders, it's much more involved than that.

 

[Dal]

If you increase power via any method, you will increase internal stress on the engine. It's all a matter of opinion as to whether the engine will cope or need modifying in some form or other.

Not that I know anything about it having only 20 years experience of materials and stress.

Going back to the original post, it is possible to get to 200bhp, but you'll need deep pockets doing it with a 1.7 VCT Ford engine to make it reliable and useable everyday. If you want more - get a different engine or car.

 

[Peter]

Certainly, but as far as NA tuning goes, you're going to be placing less stress on the internals by keeping them at the same RPM whilst increasing the power rather than by increasing the RPM to increase the power.

 

[Dal]

Also depends on the torque delivery as that often has more influence on stress over failure as shear power does.

 

[benking]

so whats the best solution

tune the 1.7 whch will cost

or conversion which will cost

 

[Peter]

Sell the 1.7 Puma and get a faster car?