200bhp how hard is it???

[Dal]

In my opinion, 150 - 160bhp is enough for the car. It's the handling where the Puma shines, not in a straight line drag race. If you want straight line speed, get a different car.
(or deep pockets for a YB engine conversion - then you can have hundreds of BHP)

 

[benking]

dont want another car plus a faster car will cost. before i got the car i thought about a golf 1.8gti or 1.8t gti and i no the 2.0 has 200bhp but a golf just didnt have the same effect on me as the puma for the budget. there is just something about these cars

 

[Peter]

TBH you're far better off spending your money on a spare set of wheels, putting a really nice set of boots on them like Yokohoma A048s or Toyo R888s, then spending as much time on track days as you can.

Like Dal said, the joy of the car is in the handling, which is pretty damn good as standard. Those four post-card sized bits of rubber that touch the tarmac have far more influence over the speed and grip the car can have than anything else, get those sorted and you'll triple your fun.

After that start looking at things like a 4-2-1 exhaust and straight through catback, Eibach springs and Powerflex bushes.

However, having done that process the opposite way round myself, I can safely say that putting sticky tyres on the car made at least as much difference as all the rest of the mods combined.

 

[jacko]

i love it when people come on & say 'UR WRONG'! well where do i draw the line...?
do i go mental with the details & put someone whos enthusiastic off by sounding like im an arse who knows it all or do i put it in simple terms that pretty much everyone can deal with, but some arses love to shout 'i know more than you; your wrong'! get a life

NOS IS LIQUID OXYGEN!!!! ok its nitrogen & oxygen at a point where it is pretty much a liquid, but thats because thats more stable than real liquid oxygen!!!! if people could use liquid o2 THEY WOULD!!!!!!!!!

ALL TUNING INVOLVES GETTING MORE OXYGEN & MORE FUEL INTO THE ENGINE!

im not a fan of strapping a turbo to a car cos a lot of people melt engines doing that
im not a fan of NOS because, lets face it; the nos button goes next to the 'ejector seat' button. and it costs a fortune to run, fit etc
i kinda like small superchargers & lpg
i do like the idea of a slightly bigger, easier to NA tune engine in the puma; major drawback is ib5 gearbox; it cant hack it & the mtx is too big for the engine bay so either you do some chassis work you buy a good ib5 from someone like cts for a couple of grand

these are my opinions; IF THERE WRONG THEN GO AWAY & TELL SOMEONE ELSE!

& instead of just pointing & shouting try having a discussion

im sure NOS has its place; you could do wonders using it as an antilag system on a BIG turbo car...... ie a shot of nos to get things going before the turbo kicks in......plus run the car on lpg etc etc......

 

[jacko]

i agree peter, iv heard even the guys who developed the frp said the handling was only good for another 20bhp & theyre the experts.....

im going for 200bhp from a v6 (mainly cos i love the sound, itl have enough grunt to run 4wd & itl be a bit of fun) but thats all because thats what the engine comes as; i will tune it so its def got 200nm as a nice round figure & so it can cope with the 4wd and a trailer

its the same v6 they run in the noble so its a tried & tested route for twin turbos & silly power but im never going to race it.....

all the effort to fit it etc is less (in my mind) than going through all the issues of trying to make the se1.7 do something it wasnt designed too. its a good engine as it is & whats more you cant actually do anything with it without an open cheque book! you cant even get bearings & con rod bolts for it! ok theres always a way around it but that brings me neatly back to the open cheque book....

 

[Peter]

Aren't you a chemistry teacher jacko?

NOS IS NOT LIQUID OXYGEN

For starters, check out the chemical formula. N2O. Oxygen is simply O2.

Also, note the boiling point, -88 degrees C. Oxygen will boil at -182 degrees C. You are not going to increase the boiling point that far by mixing it twone with nitrogen, I could probably pull a phase diagram out of literature somewhere.

Also, check out what it actually does inside an engine. You get a two-stage energy release,

N2O -> N2 + 1/2 O2

So you get the energy release from the decomposition of the nitrous oxide, which gives out oxygen which burns with the extra fuel injected.

You also realise that it's just as easy to melt an engine with a supercharger as a turbocharger? As they both work on the same principle you have the same problems to deal with.

I find it charming that you open your post with an insult, then ask for a reasonable discussion. You have personally thrown your toys out of the pram at me in the past when I have tried to ask you simple questions about your projects, you have also leapt feet first into threads I have started with complete mis-information and killed them stone dead.

You are more than welcome to your opinions on tuning, no-one is trying to deny you those. Indeed I agree with many of them, a bit more power in the Puma would be a joy, it's a pity that the gearbox such a (relatively) weak link in the transmission, etc etc. But where there are facts there are facts.

If you would like to continue this in a civilised manner, please feel free. But you are participating in public discussion on a publicly accessible forum, if you don't want your opinions challenged, then you are probably better off switching off your computer and going outside.

 

[Peter]

... brings me neatly back to the open cheque book....

Aye, you can do anything with a bit of open wallet surgery

 

[jacko]

sorry peter that wasnt aimed at you; & i prob should stop ranting about the other lot....

i agree with all that & im just keeping it simple; nos has its benefits, i dont particularly like it & i think a lot of people think its a wonder drug for tuning; i really dont. i think people are to easy to throw the technical stuff about as if there protecting there religion or something daft

i know all about turbos, supercharger, forced induction as a whole, iv done my fair share of my own na tuning

i teach engineering, i have a good friend whos a chemistry teacher and a i had (recently passed away) a VERY good friend who worked as an engineer for a ford gt40 race team; what he didnt know about cars isnt worth knowing & its where iv got a lot of my knowledge

 

[jacko]

might have to! mines over fuelling (long story) & its washing the bores out & killing the cat..... and you cant get rod bolts.... so technically i shouldnt take the rods off to do the rings. although can you hone a nikasil bore? im used to steel

might have to do the v6 a bit earlier which means moving the rad & ditching the master cylinder

its all fun!

 

[Dal]

Everyone has an opinion that they are entitled to, be it based in fact or assumed knowledge.

Please keep it friendly chaps - it's not about shouting loudest to prove who's correct or has more knowledge, you'll scare poor Ben off!

Ta

 

[jacko]

NO; IM RIGHT!

NO; IM RIGHT

NO; IM RIGHT

*SLAP*

ok, think i deserved that

 

[benking]

Im not saying im going to try this.It is a discusion forum, so i thought i would start a discusion plus im curious to know. The only things thats scary is how scientific this is getting :shock:

 

[red]

Exactly, that's what it's here for; throw up an idea and see what happens inkeye:

I'd just go for the simple mods to make it a bit more responsive then enjoy some twisties

 

[benking]

was a good question i think. quite proud of my self.

i think handling is the key with these cars, its a nice feeling knowing u can push the car hard round the bends as i find i have more fun on bends than i do on the straights. a little more power would be nice. they keep up with most thing on the straights aswell as beating most, but loose more cars on the bends i feel

 

[BOK]

dont want another car plus a faster car will cost. before i got the car i thought about a golf 1.8gti or 1.8t gti and i no the 2.0 has 200bhp but a golf just didnt have the same effect on me as the puma for the budget. there is just something about these cars

Seeing as the Golf is tuned for prodigious understeer (no doubt to tame enthusiastic driving) it could be said the Puma's chassis is almost too good for the engine, making it feel underpowered. Drive the average front driver with gusto and feel the steering lighten up and the car running wide, even at lowish speeds.

 

[BOK]

im not a fan of strapping a turbo to a car cos a lot of people melt engines doing that

That's like saying you don't like fast cars because a lot of people crash in them! I'm sure you know as well as I do that fuelling is vital in turbos as is keeping induction temperatures down. Neglect that and you will surely end up in meltdown.

Even an NA engine will melt it's pistons even the fuel is run lean enough...

 

[BOK]

im going for 200bhp from a v6 (mainly cos i love the sound, itl have enough grunt to run 4wd & itl be a bit of fun) but thats all because thats what the engine comes as; i will tune it so its def got 200nm as a nice round figure & so it can cope with the 4wd and a trailer

its the same v6 they run in the noble so its a tried & tested route for twin turbos & silly power but im never going to race it.....

Right, so you're putting a physically larger and heavier power unit in for increased performance. And you're also putting in heavier and more complex transmission to deal with it. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're going to get a lower performance car with all that extra weight, the tyres will have more to deal with in cornering so you'll have less grip.
And you'll likely be changing the suspension geometry to fit your 4WD system, who's developing the new pickup points/damper/spring settings to ensure the thing handles well?

The Noble has the engine mid mounted (low transmission losses throgh friction) and loads of development behind it as it was always developed to be mid engined.

I do agree your Puma will make a great towcar but I'd suggest shoehorning in maybe the entire running gear from a Discovery TD5 for even better results...

 

[benking]

so you agree i made the right decision

 

[BOK]

i think handling is the key with these cars, its a nice feeling knowing u can push the car hard round the bends as i find i have more fun on bends than i do on the straights. a little more power would be nice. they keep up with most thing on the straights aswell as beating most, but loose more cars on the bends i feel

I definitely agree with the above. It's what the Puma is, and has always been, about k:

And it has been designed to do it in a way that affordable, in terms of insurance, fuel and running costs.

That it looks so individual is icing on the cake, though I did read your posts about bodykits, which I detest. They are usually only needed on cars that have been designed by someone who has no imagination or flair. It still means the car is the same old boring plodder underneath all the plastic extensions though.
It's like a good roast beef dinner, it needs no tarting up (though my Puma has aa few mods, not that most people notice which is the way I want it)

 

[benking]

is it just me, but when ever i talk about the handling i just have to go find a nice bend my mrs thinks im mad (she does drive a 1.1 106 tho)