Car stalling problem continues

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GenesisRed

New member
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
51
Location
South east London
So, this sorry story starts at the end of a journey from London to Birmingham. After a long journey, we pull up to some lights and the car stalls itself and dies. It restarts and we continue the few miles to the destination.

I let it cool, check the oil which was very low, top it up, fill it up on fuel and it seems fine. We return home in an easier journey and there are no further problems. 

A week or so later, I am driving in to London to pick up my girlfriend, and get snared in traffic. On the way back, the car starts to judder and stall, requiring higher revs to stay afloat. It keeps dying when starting off from lights on it's own accord and no matter the revs I give it. It restarts after a couple of goes and I tease it back nearly all the way home, trying not to stop as much as possible. However, 2 miles from home, it stalls and refuses to start up.

After it cools down, the RAC arrive and run some diagnostics which point to a fuel level gauge (I had regularly been driving it on low petrol) and the crankshaft sensor. I get the sensor changed.

It seems to be fine over the next week, only going short distances. As soon as I try a longer journey, it starts up again.

The garage suggests the mass air flow, so we change that and it seems initially to work. But it soon starts playing up again. 

After a few weeks of consideration and research I take it to the garage to have the spark coil be checked out and possibly replaced. After checking they're sure it is the coil, so we change it. It starts fine, until it starts to cool outside my house, and then fights to restart. It has low fuel so I fill it up to give it a chance, and head to Lakeside shopping centre (about 20 minutes down the road). On the route it starts to try and stall while driving at 60 in the fast lane so I pull over to the slow lane and potter my way into horrendous traffic, stall and restart my way into the car park, and finally call the RAC. 

The guy, familiar with pumas, has a good play. Summary of his findings:
Not the mass air flow (he replaces it and no difference)
Not the coil (as above)
Not the lead (as above)
Readout says fuel pressure malfunction. He sprays a fuel substitute somewhere and it starts perfect, so suspecting a bad level sensor, he puts another quarter tank in. It doesn't work.
Not fuel pump (it sits on idle for an age with no problem, until literally pushed and then it stalls). 
Symptoms don't fit a lamda oxygen sensor.
No issues with over heating.

He suggests the electrics or maybe the ecu cables.

I have run out of spare money to throw at this, chasing symptoms, so any further clues, ideas or suggestions are welcomed. If you happen to live near Greenwich in London and you fancy a look, let me know.

Otherwise I have to hang on till September or so and hope I can drive it in as an exchange, which basically means all of summer with no car...

Thanks in advance for any help and advice!
 
just because the fuel pump is working doesnt mean its not pulling the correct amount of fuel upto the engine,also try replacing the fuel filter....
 
Ha Ha, beat me to it again Martin.
Fuel filter would be my guess too, partly blocked so OK on low revs but suffers from fuel starvation as you push on, running a bit lean first so may be running hotter before it dies.
 
When I say pushed, I mean literally by hand. It actually did that twice. Any motion and it died, hence thought that it could be wiring loom and a loose or broken cable. But why only when hot?

Also, it would die as soon as you try to move off from lights, ie low revs. The rev dip when in full motion only occurred yesterday for first time. If you know how I can test it, let me know. It still could be this, as I have driven it a lot on low fuel, and that's assuming the replaced gauge (seller changed it just before sale) is not from a fiesta...

When the fuel was low, opening fuel cap made a loud hiss. Could be breather system or just normal when it's on vapours?

Cheers
 
Ignore last bit. Just sense checked that and the hiss is good news as far as breather / pressure.

I would like to think it's fuel pump related but I need to be convinced before I risk another £100 or so on possibly yet another symptom. The readout said level sensor (i think) malfunction, probably because i had run it previously on such little fuel for so long. Hence we added more fuel so it didn't think the level was really low and so starved the engine.

I believe this readout had gone but it still wouldn't hold revs. If it was just the pump would this happen?

Or is there something that would cause both symptoms?
 
as you have been running car on very low fuel you are dragging the crap from the tank into the fuel filter,hence why we have said change the fuel filter
 
It is worth changing the filter first or is it likely to be that needed as well as the pump? I was using sainsburys fuel for a while too, until I heard it was a bad idea, so i'm sure there was more gunk in there than necessary. Sigh

Any idea on costs for all this? Is it worth getting second hand pump from the ford breakers down the road?

Looking at symptoms of both they're very similar, so I suspect that the filter is blocked and that the pump is a bit weak but ok for now. Same with the coil. It didn't need to be replaced, just made a stronger spark and was better at igniting less fuel. Sound right? I'll change filter on Monday, and cross fingers. Cost estimates would be welcomed though... For both.

Thanks all
 
fuel filter approx £5 dont keep buyiny 2nd hand pumps got to a motorfactors and get 1,you dont know how good a 2nd hand 1 is and you will only be replacing it again if that is faulty too,buy once not twice and save money......
 
Just one note of concern: when the guy was under the bonnet and revving it by hand, the engine revved hard and true with no hesitations.

It only usually did it when it was moving from stationary under it's own power. Does that still make sense for the pump or filter?
 
no it wont... the filter just stops crap getting to the injectors,if that is blocked or restricted you are reducing the amount of fuel going to the injectors,it is the pump that supplys the pressure to the injectors so if the pump is worn the amount will be less,if there is an obstruction in the fuel filter that also restricts the amount of fuel pressure,so the engine will not be getting enough fuel to keep it running............
 
No, I mean both would function the same if the engine is being revved hard either under the bonnet or on the road. If it revs fine standing still, why should it be different when moving.

My concern is that I don't want to just carry on changing part by part just to eliminate them, as has been the case with crankshaft sensor, mass air flow and now coil.

Adding filter and pump to that list just for the sake of it isn't an option. It needs to be the final thing for the time being as the car is now bleeding me dry.

Edit to add: a previous poster suggested the following (see pasted txt below); does it sound less or more likely, and how can a novice like me test it...

Paste: Also, while they changed the crank sensor, did they check the wiring going to and from it? Again, the cable could be expanding and contracting with the heat or breaking slightly when the engine moves on the mounts. This would be most obvious moving away as the engine would probably be experiencing the most torque twisting when moving off from stand-still. I had a golf that had the cable damaged and would die entirely at this point. You could check it by finding the wiring and giving it a fiddle when you first start the car.
 
what part of changing the fuel filter is hard to understand,it cost about £5 takes 10 mins to do and should be replaced regulary
it is a dam sight cheaper than a fuel pump and you know its also been changed,if you cant be bothered to spend £5 why ask for help!!!!

in fact you can get 1 for less than £4 delivered and took me 5seconds to find on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-PUMA-1-6-1-7-16V-97-01-Fuel-Filter-/250818355485?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a65f0611d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Hey, easy with the attitude. I simply don't have the tools to change it myself, so a £5 part becomes £40 with labour. And having spent a few hundred chasing this issue alone so far, i'm hardly going to jump in on the first next thing.

I appreciate the help, but if I don't query then I'm more of a fool.
 
fuel filter only needs a pair of long nosed pliers and there is even a guide on here on how to do it and if you have to buy pliers it will still cost less than £10 saving you labour charges............................. and you time is free which is a bonus................................................
 
I saw the guide, but the issues with fuel getting everywhere concerned me, and getting under the car in the first place. But i'll give it a go.
 
as the filter comes with caps covering the pipe ends what you do is remove 1 of the new filter,remove 1 pipe of the old filter,put cap on old filter and connect the pipe straight onto the new 1,then disconnect the other pipe and remove old filter and connect new 1 up,there is very little fuel loss and if you take your time takes less than a minute to fit.....
 
Ok, so here it is:

Not fuel filter
Not coil
Not crankshaft sensor
Not lack of fuel
Not mass air flow

Let me add for full clarity the engine will rev fine, full blast or slow, idle fine when it's not in motion. As soon as it puts torque on the engine (by starting to engage the gear) the engine fully dies.

Sometimes, if you back off engaging the gear (or you really give it some welly before you do), you can get the car in motion - probably because the torque movement has been ridden - and let the car settle back.

Maybe the change to the fuel filter will have prevented the "in motion" rev dipping which occured the other day for the first time, but I won't be finding that out any time soon.

So, what is left? All I can assume is the wiring loom. Thoughts?
 

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