Overhauling Zetec-SE

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Wild E. Coyote

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I am sure someone would know. The 1.6 engine uses steel liners. Are they interchangeable or cast in? If they're cast in, how thick are they? My question would be: is it possible to make your own liners and put them in?

Now, let's take a look at 1.7 engine. Is the engine block same as on 1.6? I know, I know, the 1.7 has Nikasil treatment, but that is apllied to liners as well or not?

1.6 engine is bored at 79,5 mm, 1.7 uses 80,0 mm bore. Hardly a difference in grand scheme of things, isn't it? The way I see it, lot's and lot's of things can be had for 1.6 engines, for 1.7 the choice is not so good and things are as a rule much more expensive.

Would it be possible to overhaul the 1.7 engine by putting into it the steel liners instead of nikasil treatment?

How do look 1.6 and 1.7 pistons in comparison? I know the 1.6 operates with CR of 11:1 and 1.7 is lower compressed at 10.3:1. I would guess that CR difference comes from pistons, or is it just from the head?

Any info is much appretiated
 
The liners in both the 1.6 and 1.7 are pressed in, you can get steel liners for either but the old ones need to be milled out and new ones pressed in.

From memory the 1.7 is closer to the 1.4 then the 1.6, but other then the VCT pressurised oil galleries, and different valve sizes, I couldn't tell you what the differences are.

The 1.7 has a bigger squish area/combustion chamber then the other engines, so I'm guessing that's why the compression ratio is lower
 
Cheers for the info. So I guess the real question is: would piston rings work OK with ordinary steel liners, not nikasil treated ones?

Or to turn it around: how much is Nikasil prone to wearing off? If engine is consuming oil, is that down to worn pistong rings, or worn liners or both?
 
I really don't know which is more likely to wear first out of the liner and the rings, but logic tells me it's more likely to be the rings, as they are designed to be the seal between the piston and the cylinder wall. So although the 1.7 is classed as 'none serviceable' by ford, the Jaguar Nikasil lined engine has piston rings available.

That's just my theory. I have repaired 2 engines with low compression due to worn rings, but I just used second hand parts to repair it from low mileage engines, they were just a cheap option to help people out, & as far as I know both are still running fine!
 
I dont know if this will answer any of your questions but its interesting anyway :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Ok, so I guess getting the new rings should be enough. The bore should still be at 80,00 mm.

@lusid666 I am very well aware of Nikasil treatment. Thanks anyway
 
Reviving my old thread. As my engine is now consuming about 1.5 litres of oil per 10.000 km and I can't get another engine (and they are also getting into big mielage numbers now) I am doing some investigation regarding the overhauling the engine.
My finding so far are a bit inconclusive as the data on internet is mixed up a bit so would ask for assistance of you, nice people, on the forum.
Firstly, there are two versions of engines in our cars. They both share the same basic architecture but they are not exactly the same. Their designations are MHA and MHB. Both produce 125 bhp and have same capacity (1.7 l, 80 x 82.5 bore x stroke). So far, so good.
1.7 version of sigma engine uses nikasil treatment on bores. That is good and bad at the same time. The good: wear on bores is almost nonexistant. The bad: you can't use the chromed piston rings. If you could, there is a set of piston rings for honda 1.8 engine (A18A) at 80 mm bore D and thickness of 1.2, 1.2 and 2.5 mm. I guess if you machine down the nikasil (not that I propose it!) and you are left with steel liners, this set can be used as it is offered in nominal, as well in two additional dimesnions (+0.25, +0.5 mm).
This is the set that is being offered and advertised on eBay as for puma, but it is WRONG! Chrome rings (1st and the oil scraper) would destroy nikasil treatment.
What you need is a steel rings that are nitrited. They are very shiney (the chromed are matt in appearance). Ford si offering them but the price is OMG. It would have to be the first and obvious choice, but if you know someone who can produce them, they should be nitrited (the 2nd phosphatised) and their thickness' are 1.2 , 1.2 and 2.5 mm (for the last one I am not sure).
The second thing that crossed my mind is to actually have a look at 1.6 rings. They are being produced by NPN and Goetze.
The set from NPN uses forst chromed ring so it is a no go, but the Goetze oversized set (nominal 79.50, this one is +0.50 making it the needed 80 mm) is using the first ring in nitrited form so it would be good to be used in nikasil lined engine. The set number is 08-141307-00
The 2nd compression ring is phosphated and as such again applicable in nikasil lined engine, but its thickness is 1.5 mm. I guess it's usability woudl depend on the pistons you are using and whether there is enough of gap (rings have to move in pistons!).
The oil scraper is chromed so it is of no use, but I guess (again I GUESS) the old ones could be used in conjuction with new compression rings?
Moving onto shells. Here there are mixed informations floating around.
Glyco catalogue states that all of the sigma engines from puma (being 1.4@90 bhp, 1.6@103 bhp and 1.7@125 bhp) use the same main crankshaft bearings.
The journal OD is 48 mm (nominal)
The crankcase ID is 54 mm (nominal).
Glyco catalogue number is: H1100/5 STD

Big end bearings
The journal OD is 40 mm
The conrod ID is 43 mm -> this information applies to 1.4 and 1.7 engines (the 1.7 has forged crankshaft). I guess Yamaha wanted to lower the mass of crankshaft and make engine revvier so used smaller journals and forged them to make them durable enough. Again, this makes sense.
Glyco catalogue number for STD shells: 01-4162/4 STD. Available oversized as well (+0.25 mm). The big ends are offered from Ford as well (at least in theory, I don't know if there are any left on stock).

The 1.6 engine has bigger Big end
Journal OD is 44 mm
Conrod ID is 47 mm

Now, here NPN catalogue differs: it states the MHA engine is like stated already, but MHB has bigger shells (main OD 58 mm, big end 47 as on zetec 1.8 and 2.0). Since right beneath MHB is the silvertop zetec, I guess someone wrongly copy pasted this info and I am inclined to go with Glyco (Federal mogule) information on this matter. Anyway, the bearings for puma engine are obtaineable .
All you need now is set of gaskets and some torqueing information.

Big end is to be torqued 21 Nm + 45 degrees (Ford info). The rest will have to be taken from shawspeed page (www.shawspeed.com)

And the question asked about 100 times: what is the difference between MHA and MHB engines? Still unsure. There are differences in valves, but not by MHA-MHB differentitation, but only on basis of date of production. Again, as Federal mogule (www.fmecat.eu) states, engines after 01/98. use bigger exhaust valves (26 instead of 24.1 mm), and the inlet valves were also slightly enlarged (30.1 vs. 30 mm).

My kind request would be if someone has engine in pieces to try measuring these dimensions stated here to verify them, please?

Ta in advance,

PS. Forgot to mention: 1.4 and 1.6 engines are easy repairable as FM is offering for them everything including pistons
 
Whilst it would not doubt be expensive to courier, is a replacement engine from the UK or another closer country a total no go?

Road trip to Germany maybe?
 
Engines in Germany are expensive like hell. In the end might go for a shipping from UK as it is cheaper and plus I have a reliable source of engines with IanG.

But I just thought I'd share my findings as these engines are getting to an age where overhaul will become the only option....
 
In that case, the rings from honda A18A should fit nicely for very reasonable costs. I don't know what is the cost of original rings in UK, but I got quote here just about 200 GBP PER CYLINDER?!? 800 GBP just for rings?! Can you imagine that?!

Edit: just found out that putting in the cast iron liners (here) would set me back about 200 GBP so it really becomes a no brainer in the long run. I guess I would buy one totalled puma and take the engine out and do a repair using this method and then wait and see how the car would go...
 
Thanks to a member from Puma people who had actually overhauled the puma engine now I have the exact infos regarding the cranshaft bearings.
The crankshaft big end OD (nominal) is 42 mm. The conrod ID is 45 mm. The bearings from mitsubishi G15 engine are exactly the same dimensions and can be used. NPR is offering two versions of the same: 6187220000 and 6187210000 the later having width of 17.630 mm that would need fileing away 2 mm. Luckily, 6187220000 should have the nominal width of 15.630 that is just about right! The same bearings are used by Hyundai in their old engines produced under MItsubishi licence (designation G4AJ, G4DJ, 4G15).
The main bearings have the dimensions as stated before 48 mm (housing 54) and these are normally offered by Glyco.
 

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