FRP Duratec Turbo Project!

[PumaNoob]

Oh and the plated diff was in this car when I had around 350bhp, with standard driveshafts! But torque steer is about a lot more then equal length shafts, they are a small part if the equation, there is also weight distribution, road surface, torque, downforce, lift, tyre compound, drag ect ect. When all is said and done, only someone with a screw loose would put this amount of power in a fwd puma knowing full well they should have stopped a long time ago :lol: But I am said person with a few loose screws

 

[evilrob]

Paraphrased:

 

[Davedrave]

So seeing as Errol and I (almost) both have 400+ bhp Puma's, would any of you guys recommend some tech for me to use on the car to be able to transfer all of that power to the road without spinning the wheels in 1st and 2nd from a full throttle standing start?

I'm going down the Emerald K6 route and have spoke to them today about using their traction control system. I need to get some wheel speed sensors for each wheel and then wire them to the ECU and let my mapping guy figure out the rest. :lol:

I understand that launch control is, in its simplest form, some kind of rev limiter? I may be wrong, but thats effectively what it does, right? Would this be an option to go down for standing starts?

Any help appreciated guys.

 

[PumaNoob]

Lol at Evilrob!!! :lol:

Dave you already have wheel speed sensors if you have abs, if not you can retro fit ABS from another puma.

Launch control is just a rev limiter and power control depending how you set it up, usually retarding ignition timing or cutting a percentage of sparks per cycle, or if you want a more subtle launch control that won't blow your mufflers to shreds :lol: , you can have a fuel cut with ignition retard, its not as effective but not as aggressive on the system. On a turbo car you'd probably incorporate anti-lag too.

 

[Davedrave]

Ah yes true. However, am I correct in thinking that if I use the abs sensors for my traction control then I will lose the abs?

I'll get my mapping guy to set up launch control when we get to that stage in the build. Not really interested in anti lag. Might be a little too much for what I want from the car.

I've had another thought though, how about some wider wheels and tires all round? Standard tires on the puma are 205 so if I could get that up to 225 or 235 all round then that will help. Also, have you got any strut braces on your car or anything or is it not really needed?

 

[PumaNoob]

I'm not sure if I'm honest mate, I don't think they are resistance based (although the resistance does fluctuate at the same rate as pulses), I think they are variable reluctance like the crank sensor. Ive spliced 2 ECU's into one crank sensor so I believe it may work, but it would be a trial and error thing.

 

[Davedrave]

I'll get my mapping guy to sort it all out when we get to that stage in the build.

Looking into the wider wheels but it is tricky as we only have a standard puma so skinny arches. It's a struggle to find something that is the size we want and looks good too.

Your wheels look absolutely mint, but you have an FRP and the colours work well!

 

[PumaNoob]

There is an argument that wider tyres on the same car still has the same contact patch as a narrower tyre, but that's only in paper, in reality I notice a difference in traction with my 235 40 17 tyres, but with the 8j wheels and the wider tyres, I also notice a weight difference, so that's worth keeping in mind.

When we did a track day at Rockingham a few years back, I put 205-40-17 on (my rd tyres were 215) and traction, braking, and cornering were all noticeably lower.

And with regards to the strut braces, I only have the front lower fitted and it makes a big difference to handling, I thought it may have been a case of people buying them and then the placebo effect kicking in, but I can honestly say it's 100% worth the upgrade.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Ah yes true. However, am I correct in thinking that if I use the abs sensors for my traction control then I will lose the abs?

No, why would you? After all, puma has already built in traction control of a kind. Traction control is sort of reversed ABS (you compare the driven and free wheels for speed and act on your power delivery accordingly, in puma case by applying the front brakes only).
The problems with puma sensors is: it is inductive system; you need some speed before it can act. That is why the ABS is inoperative below 5 kph, IIRC. The newer systems use Hall magnetic sensors that can detect movement at 0 kph speed and also the direction of rotation.
So in your case, you would need some wheel spin to occur before system can detect it and react on it, where as with newer systems it reacts instantly before the acutal spinning has occured

 

[madhillbilly17]

you've done a cracking job with setting yours up without spending huge money,i think there's quite a art in mapping and you do i really well better than most with all the equipment! i haven't got the knack that's for sure lol.

 

[Davedrave]

Ah yes true. However, am I correct in thinking that if I use the abs sensors for my traction control then I will lose the abs?

No, why would you? After all, puma has already built in traction control of a kind. Traction control is sort of reversed ABS (you compare the driven and free wheels for speed and act on your power delivery accordingly, in puma case by applying the front brakes only).
The problems with puma sensors is: it is inductive system; you need some speed before it can act. That is why the ABS is inoperative below 5 kph, IIRC. The newer systems use Hall magnetic sensors that can detect movement at 0 kph speed and also the direction of rotation.
So in your case, you would need some wheel spin to occur before system can detect it and react on it, where as with newer systems it reacts instantly before the acutal spinning has occured

So would you suggest then that I keep the ABS sensors and leave them alone and simply go with 4 newer digital wheel speed sensors? I've been told by emeral to get 4 wheel speed sensors and wire them up to the ecu. Unless you have any other ideas? All the help is appreciated!

With regards to Errol, I think we are going to invest in the strut brace as well then. Hopefully will help keep the front end in check with all that heavy weight over the front. Might try and sort something out for the rear too so it doesn't go all light when on the brakes. Cheers for the help with the tires too. I think that's definitely something we're going to do soon or further down the line if and when I decide to put the S1600 body kit on it.

 

[CherryVimto]

Just to comment further on what Errol has said about the lower strut brace.... GET ONE!!!

I didn't think they made much difference as I fitted mine at the same time as fitting a front upper brace, poly bushes all round and coilovers.
I removed the brace and it made a hell of a difference... And I regretted it afterwards!
I think the lower brace is the best handling mod you can do, they're dirt cheap and super easy to fit too!

 

[Davedrave]

I'm going to get one from puma build, the OMP one. They're only £35!

 

[Flying Scotsman]

I removed the brace and it made a hell of a difference...

Can you elaborate with a bit more technical detail as to what specifically was different and the testing conditions?

 

[PumaJay]

I removed the brace and it made a hell of a difference...

Can you elaborate with a bit more technical detail as to what specifically was different and the testing conditions?

The simple truth is its better with it.

The car feels tighter and more responsive.

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I find my rear end bit to lively for my liking. Any improvement in that aree with front strut brace?

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

So would you suggest then that I keep the ABS sensors and leave them alone and simply go with 4 newer digital wheel speed sensors? I've been told by emeral to get 4 wheel speed sensors and wire them up to the ecu. Unless you have any other ideas? All the help is appreciated!

I can't comment on that plan, simply because I don't know how and where would those extra sensors be installed?

Perhaps easier route would be getting front hubs out of fiesta ST150 (don't know if they could be made to fit?) as they would have the sensors already built in. Also, get the rear focus disc brakes hubs; they are eqipped with magnetic rings and sensors to start with and you can get them to work what ever you want, I suppose. The ABS would be lost, however, unless you put in the ABS modul from focus or fiesta ST150 that would be able to detect and read from magnetic rings and sensors.

Please, don't take it as a guide of what to do, I am just thinking out loud (as we would say in Croatia, don't know if that makes any sense in English)

PS: Perhaps we should move this conversation out of this thread, we have hijacked Erroll's Project thread?

 

[Davedrave]

Yes indeed, that might have been my fault. If you don't mind I'm going to move this to my own project thread and we can continue this there?

Sorry for hijacking your thread mate, I'm sure you may find anything said useful at some stage!

 

[PumaJay]

I find my rear end bit to lively for my liking. Any improvement in that aree with front strut brace?

Theres not alot you can do with it, one option im exploring for my car is a rear anti roll bar.

Looking at it I reckon the Fiesta ST Whiteline anti roll bar kit would fit.

 

[Bentleya]

Warren has the Whiteline Fiesta ST rear anti roll bar on his KA, it fits but needs a slight modifaction to work at the correct angle.