phew what a week of projects.
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Flying Scotsman
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Have you spoken to danST Engineering, They did mine made to order.
Also if you consider the Duratec Turbo route, have a look at what is on danST Eng Facebook page currently.
Also if you consider the Duratec Turbo route, have a look at what is on danST Eng Facebook page currently.
I think the duratec is the easiest and least expensive route of all...however I am committed to the F3 engine, and would really like the feel of 300 bhp from a NA engined car...even if it is a bit peaky, I already have my steel fancy bottom end 1700. This will take a big turbo, and a simple flowed head to give me a bit more oomph, should take me to 350 plus and I think that is as much as a std frp can really handle... Bloke I agreed to buy his FRP sold it to someone else, so am still looking for the right car again....
RyanG
New member
Hmmm 300 bhp normally aspirated, that's a bit optamistic from a 2 litre, the 2.3 duratecs as an ultimate spec make 310bhp.
not optomistic at all already done...well 290, tested... its as near as it needs to be for me...and I dont doubt with a bit of nitrous this could be coaxed reasonably safely to well over 330bhp...I think I may just go for smaller throttle bodies, to give me a bit mroe response lowere down the rev range and fit nitrous for those extra moments when the power is just not enough...got to get the right car first though..would love to buy a ss1600 shell, without engine and gearbox and fit one in that...hey ho maybe sometime when i have a bit of spare cash...
the turbo cars are the unknowns as I have the all steel heavy duty bottom end ready to go on a car and will build a nice gt28 turbo car, aiming for 300 bhp...this should easily take it and still only use around 7500 rpm tops...
still got to decide if I put this into the 088 shell or the 419 car...419 needs a bit of welding and once done will be fine, welder back of holiday next wek and its his job to fix it...will then decide, but with only 60k miles it is a real sweet engine...shame to take it out...
hence why i need another frp for the na engine and the 088 shell for the big turbo engine..
would still love to put a duratec in one of the cars though...
the std frp I want to go for a mild turbo install on nitrous puma just 220-230 bhp but there is a load of work to do before I get there...
the turbo cars are the unknowns as I have the all steel heavy duty bottom end ready to go on a car and will build a nice gt28 turbo car, aiming for 300 bhp...this should easily take it and still only use around 7500 rpm tops...
still got to decide if I put this into the 088 shell or the 419 car...419 needs a bit of welding and once done will be fine, welder back of holiday next wek and its his job to fix it...will then decide, but with only 60k miles it is a real sweet engine...shame to take it out...
hence why i need another frp for the na engine and the 088 shell for the big turbo engine..
would still love to put a duratec in one of the cars though...
the std frp I want to go for a mild turbo install on nitrous puma just 220-230 bhp but there is a load of work to do before I get there...
RyanG
New member
Well Ford's super 2000 duratecs are 280 bhp we've seen 285. Maybe they make 290 on a rolling road but like I say a genuine 300bhp from a 2.0 litre atmo duratec just doesn't happen.
Looking forward to seeing all your cars completed especially a powerful turbo car, if it wasn't for gearbox issues is build one myself
Looking forward to seeing all your cars completed especially a powerful turbo car, if it wasn't for gearbox issues is build one myself
ScubaSteve
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Yeah agreed, theres a massive difference between someones shitey rolling road showing a figure than something actually making it
RyanG said:Well Ford's super 2000 duratecs are 280 bhp we've seen 285. Maybe they make 290 on a rolling road but like I say a genuine 300bhp from a 2.0 litre atmo duratec just doesn't happen.
Looking forward to seeing all your cars completed especially a powerful turbo car, if it wasn't for gearbox issues is build one myself
beleive you me too...
so far I have nitrous puma running ok with quaiffe lsd and new box, fifth is a bit stiff...but otherwise okay...
std puma with iffy welding. this will be welded up then put back on the road...likely I will either take this engine out and build the big turbo or leave it as is and just drive it as a basic car...
088 needs a lot of work but think this will likely go to the turbo steel engine...that will make 350 bhp, with a ported head and the gt28r...just about anyway...but would be happy with 320 to be honest. and will definitely be a track mostly car...
the 300 bhp engine is already done, it produces in std form 290 bhp, not a possible not a dream a fact....anyway with nitrous should make 320 easily but this is going in a new car...one I was supposed to buy this weekend but the person sold it after I agreed to buy it to someone else...hey ho...this will be a long term car, gong to increase the track of the front by a couple of inches and maybe get hold of the design for the ss1600 rear swing arms...not sure if that is worth the effort in a front drive track mostly car...all depends upon my schedules...
RyanG
New member
If the 290bhp engine your talking about is the f3 engine they couldn't make 270bhp that's why they were ditched as the mugen tuned Honda engine pissed all over it.
Would be nice to see it on our Dyno for a true power figure.
I've heard the fiesta st box is stronger as a turbo route not too sure though
Would be nice to see it on our Dyno for a true power figure.
I've heard the fiesta st box is stronger as a turbo route not too sure though
ryam thats good info tell me more as yes I am talking about the f3 engine.. i bought it on the basis it was going to give me 290 plus...so tell me what you can, if its only 270 then that isnt great news at all, its seriously down on what I was told and expected...it really means that I would be better turboing the engine rather than leaving it on throttle bodies, that would give me a broader power band and more power if i wanted. I have been trying to find out some of the history but not been able to find much so far, the people who built it in Swindon have mostly left...
RyanG
New member
They were around 270. The restrictors are so well designed that the engine wouldn't make much more without them especially seen as though the engines were designed to work with a restrictor they could have made less with it removed.
At the end of the day an unlimited touring car engine budget and there 2.0 litres don't make 300bhp infact when Swindon built the Vauxhall touring car engines john clelends engine from his cavilier was on mountunes Dyno and gave 275bhp. A 2.litre just don't make 300bhp.
I think swindons Dyno is a little optimistic, I know of a Swindon built s1600 engine that claimed 260...
If you put a bit of development in to the f3 engine you have you would probably see
280 bhp no more. Unless were talking rolling road figure haha
At the end of the day an unlimited touring car engine budget and there 2.0 litres don't make 300bhp infact when Swindon built the Vauxhall touring car engines john clelends engine from his cavilier was on mountunes Dyno and gave 275bhp. A 2.litre just don't make 300bhp.
I think swindons Dyno is a little optimistic, I know of a Swindon built s1600 engine that claimed 260...
If you put a bit of development in to the f3 engine you have you would probably see
280 bhp no more. Unless were talking rolling road figure haha
RyanG
New member
Blue3 said:
do you know the size of the restrictor they claimed 270+bhp through
Flying Scotsman
New member
Ideas and dreams are being crushed and crumbled right here...
Who has the literature to back up their claims??
So your facts gents!
Who has the literature to back up their claims??
So your facts gents!
yes all very interesting, we have dynos that are shite, engines that will never give more than 270 and views and impressions that confuse...but live on the forum...I like your last line Ryan with a bit of development...what development do you suggest...perhaps we can move it to a useful conversation...yes we have the manuals and on mine it says 290 bhp, thats what I am living with.
its true that most 2 litre engines generally do not give 300 bhp, but I guess its madness that a motorbike engine of just 0.997 litres gives 175 bhp and more....and a 500cc motorbike gives just shy of 200 bhp...and thats in the year 2000
Ryan, I hear what you are saying but your views are clearly your views, tinged with excellent knowledge but as I have heard on here before some people have very closed minds....and whatever we get these engines are ours and we will have fun with them...300 270 or somewhere in between. Mine with nitrous will do what I want and thats plain.
Anyway coming back to my engine...I will collect it this week and ponder the plans and then start the build..got to sort the sump, easy job, sort the throttle bodies, without restrictors...although I may restrict these myself to give me better low end torque, maximum power is pointless without a reasonable power curve, for a road going car anyway...had an escoss once with a 510 bhp engine, totally useless, if it was not at full revs it bogged down and was slower than a std 1.6 escort.. great if you drove it flat out all the time but mental fast and simply mental...useless car. not for me stupid high power again although an MR2 with 500 bhp and twin turbos sounds cool..still hankerafter an s2000...lovely car...
its true that most 2 litre engines generally do not give 300 bhp, but I guess its madness that a motorbike engine of just 0.997 litres gives 175 bhp and more....and a 500cc motorbike gives just shy of 200 bhp...and thats in the year 2000
Ryan, I hear what you are saying but your views are clearly your views, tinged with excellent knowledge but as I have heard on here before some people have very closed minds....and whatever we get these engines are ours and we will have fun with them...300 270 or somewhere in between. Mine with nitrous will do what I want and thats plain.
Anyway coming back to my engine...I will collect it this week and ponder the plans and then start the build..got to sort the sump, easy job, sort the throttle bodies, without restrictors...although I may restrict these myself to give me better low end torque, maximum power is pointless without a reasonable power curve, for a road going car anyway...had an escoss once with a 510 bhp engine, totally useless, if it was not at full revs it bogged down and was slower than a std 1.6 escort.. great if you drove it flat out all the time but mental fast and simply mental...useless car. not for me stupid high power again although an MR2 with 500 bhp and twin turbos sounds cool..still hankerafter an s2000...lovely car...
oh and my subaru buggy is at last about to pass its test, just three items to resolve, tighten a bolt up, fix a sloppy bracket and we are all done, 150 bhp in a car with just 600 kg of weight..and thats just a guess it may be less as it is made of nothing,...goes like stink, especially in a circle...# :lol:
turbo puma with 7 psi is running a treat so can safely say that 12 psi is a bit much for the std 1.7 engine without a decompresion plate...ble two engines with it at 12 psi in very quick order...
nitrous puma is too slow even with nitrous so am going to bolt on a turbo that I have lying around and give it a bit of a boost and keep the nitrous for those extra moments...will remove one of the bottles and fit it into the 419 car once its been welded and give it a boost of 50 bhp jets and nitrous for when i need more power but otherwise that one will stay std...I think...
088 I am going to try and build with a duratec engine and st front end...wait until the welder is back...
will post a few piccies tonight
:lol: turbo puma with 7 psi is running a treat so can safely say that 12 psi is a bit much for the std 1.7 engine without a decompresion plate...ble two engines with it at 12 psi in very quick order...
nitrous puma is too slow even with nitrous so am going to bolt on a turbo that I have lying around and give it a bit of a boost and keep the nitrous for those extra moments...will remove one of the bottles and fit it into the 419 car once its been welded and give it a boost of 50 bhp jets and nitrous for when i need more power but otherwise that one will stay std...I think...
088 I am going to try and build with a duratec engine and st front end...wait until the welder is back...
will post a few piccies tonight
PumaNoob
New member
I think your decompression figures are a little off paul. a 2mm decomp plate with two 0.2mm gaskets gives you a comp ratio of near as damn it 8.5:1.
Each cylinder is 419.75cc, and the combustion chamber vol is 45.13cc. The total vol of combustion chamber and cylinder is 464.88cc. The comp ratio is 10.3:1 as standard, so its compresses 10.3 parts to 1 part. 464.88/10.3 = 45.13 (combustion chamber vol).
So if you increase the combustion chamber, its an 80mm bore, so each mm increases vol by 5.03cc. 2mm increases the vol by 10.06cc. So the over all combustion vol is now 55.19cc. The cylinder and combustion vol is now 474.94cc. To get the ratio you divide total vol by the combustion vol. 474.94/55.19= 8.6. Then add another head gasket, gives you near as damn it 8.5:1.
If you go for a 6mm decomp plate, youll decrease your comp ratio to:
Combustion vol with 6mm plate = 75.29cc
Combustion and cylinder Vol = 495.04
Comp ratio = 6.6:1!!
Thats WAYYY too low, you probably wont get it to start, and if you did, it will never idle, and it will take your turbo forever to spool. On the upside, youll probably be able to run about 50psi of boost without detonation :grin:
Each cylinder is 419.75cc, and the combustion chamber vol is 45.13cc. The total vol of combustion chamber and cylinder is 464.88cc. The comp ratio is 10.3:1 as standard, so its compresses 10.3 parts to 1 part. 464.88/10.3 = 45.13 (combustion chamber vol).
So if you increase the combustion chamber, its an 80mm bore, so each mm increases vol by 5.03cc. 2mm increases the vol by 10.06cc. So the over all combustion vol is now 55.19cc. The cylinder and combustion vol is now 474.94cc. To get the ratio you divide total vol by the combustion vol. 474.94/55.19= 8.6. Then add another head gasket, gives you near as damn it 8.5:1.
If you go for a 6mm decomp plate, youll decrease your comp ratio to:
Combustion vol with 6mm plate = 75.29cc
Combustion and cylinder Vol = 495.04
Comp ratio = 6.6:1!!
Thats WAYYY too low, you probably wont get it to start, and if you did, it will never idle, and it will take your turbo forever to spool. On the upside, youll probably be able to run about 50psi of boost without detonation :grin:
Also don't live by dyno figures we used to race against a guy who was one of the most successful special gt drivers, never put his Aston on a dyno, always set the engine up by feel, then one day put it on the dyno got another 30 Bhp and was a second a lap slower !
ScubaSteve
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Also dont live by dyno figures because they are about as accurate a number as throwing darts at a dartboard
Flying Scotsman
New member
ScubaSteve said:
I'm pretty good at darts when im a bit pissed...
