Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

[PumaNoob]

Thanks mate, hopefully ill have some vids up here over the weekend of performance. Theres a racing puma engine in a zetec S that ill try and go toe to toe with, it was rolling road tested as 160bhp per tonne, it was weighed at 970kg, and had 153bhp at the flywheel!
My puma would need 165bhp to keep level with it, as its heavier, so should get some idea of what power it has over the weekend, as i dont know when i can get it rolling road tested, anybody know of any RR days comming up?

 

[BlackKnight1982]

Nice work, does it run better with the MAF just by the throttle body?

 

[PumaNoob]

It was running terrible, because the dump valve was open on idle (most vacum), and blowing out alot of air, but the ecu was fuelling for this air, so was throwing in alot of fuel to accomodate the air, and was idling really rough, and bogging down whenever you change gear, because the dump valve had just dumped a load of metered air! As soon as i changed it around, it runs smooth, idles great, and accelerates FAST!! On your charger, id definately change the set up, or youll get the same problem. Also, i think the 5th injector may be a little too much for the set up your going for, ill let you know more when ive had it on the RR, but even when i increased the fuelling a little, it bogged down, as the MAF is metering for the amount of air going into the engine, so any additional fuel bogs it down, so it might work better and alot more cost effective if you just use a power boost valve, with a vacume/boost line on the top. As i say, ill let you know when ive got mine tested, and i can see what the air fuel ratio is throughout the rev range!

 

[BlackKnight1982]

I can't find any information on how much these ford puma fuel injectors will work upto, so u wud advise moving the maf to by the throttle body then? You need to buy a air/fuel ratio guage like mine which connects to your existing lambda. That wud give you a clear view of the air/fuel at the moment. Where did you get your fmu from? How much did it cost?

 

[PumaNoob]

The only problem with the affordable Air/Fuel gaugess is they are erratic (except if you have a wideband), and i think they are hard to judge anything by, but i think it would be ideal if they are accurate even to just get an idea. Yes, id definately advise you put the MAF next to the throttle, it actually might give you a little more pawer, as its right in front of the grille, so it will think the air is a liitle cooler (might not work out like that, but its just an idea)!! But as long as your BOV is before the MAF, it dosent matter where you put them. You wont have as bad a problem as me, as yours looks like a re-circulating valve, but as your re-circ valve is before the charger (it has to be or it would be pointless)the air thats re circulated can come out back through the MAF and air filter. I got the FMU from america, its only a cheap Fleebay job, (i think chinese made) but i might try a variable rate unit instead of my fixed 12:1. I think i paid about £20 for it, but dont go for a 12:1, it overfuells, next ill try something like a 4:1 or 6:1 (ive seen some on ebay from germany) but ill let you know what i come up with mate. As for fuel injectors, they are the same injectors and fuel pump as the escort RS2000, and are good for 250bhp N/A iirc, however, as an fmu uses increased fuel pressure to fuel the engine, im not sure if the pump is up to it!
How much did you get your Air/Fuel gague for, and does it look pretty accurate? If so, what did it look like when you put your charger on it?

 

[PumaNoob]

Well actually, we need to remember that ive got the racing puma map on mine, so the fuelling will be different, but if your local to me, your more then welcome to try my fmu at 12:1, ive got no other use for it now, unless it works with the boost controller, but if you try it, at least youll know if it will do the job. You wont really know with yours though, as A/F gauges should read rich when accelerating anyway, its just mine was too rich, and made the car bog down!

 

[BlackKnight1982]

upto 250 bhp is more than enough for me, Yeah my mechanic mate used a rising rate pressure regulator on it, when we make shifted it up. It ran fine. i will give him a call see what he reckons. So where u based? Ive currently got all my install in bits i was was saving up for a expensive injector controller which i obvoiusly don't need as my injectors can do the job anyway. With a supercharger it should running pretty fine as the boost is smoothly delivered, not like a turbo.

 

[PumaNoob]

Ok ok, rub it in that youve got a S/C and ive got a turbo! :lol:
Can you ask your mate what rising rate FPR he used, i could do with 1 to make sure my fuelling is up to scratch. I live in north birmingham mate, how about you?

 

[BlackKnight1982]

I live on the wirral near chester, i will ask him and get back to you.
I think my supercharger conversion will be getting done quicker than expected!!!
We will have to take them to a meet when we get them sorted mate forced induction puma conversions are a rare breed!!

 

[PumaNoob]

Yeah, id definately be up for that mate, i wouldnt mind seeing how the S/C goes against the turbo, it will be very interesting, however, there is something you havent thought about!! My car gets a little lag, true, but it almost instantly boosts to the regulated psi, weather its 5, 8, or 10psi! Your charger will only reach the max boost at the max revs!! So, at 3000rpm, ill have max boost, but youll only have 40% boost, unless you drop the rev limit to 6 or 6500rpm, but either way, it will be very interesting to see how they are up against each other, i think the SC might have the edge as its got a nice smooth power curve, but should be close i think! Do you know of any meets that would be suitable? When do you think you will have your SC set up then?

 

[BlackKnight1982]

It shall be interesting too see. Ive ask my mate he said he used a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, one which u can adjust the onset and maximum fuel pressure and rate of flow. he said a fixed ratio fuel pressure regulator won't work well u need one which can be adjusted so u can set it properly! Im going to get one i think and get this conversion fiinished off!

 

[warrenpenalver]

i suspect you are going to have loads of issues with the cheap chinese fuel regulator unless youve been very lucky to get one of the good ones out of hundreds of crap ones. I know plenty of people whove tried the chinese ones instead of the expensive aeromotive ones and although they look the same etc they just dont work as well, send the fuel pressure all over the place etc.

its one of the key items stopping your engine going lean then melting!! its worth spending on!

also sounds like you need to adjust your dump valve. it should never be letting air into engine if adjusted correctly. It has a spring inside which is supposed to keep the piston closed at idle and off boost cruising. you can adjust the unit to keep it shut when its supposed to. With the boost your running you probably dont even need a dump valve.

if your getting full boost at 3krpm then theres not much lag really. although your going to get some lag with the long pipework between turbo and inlet anyway. Are you controlling boost on the actuator itself or a electronic boost control valve??

 

[PumaNoob]

Hi Warren, been following your post for a while now, but the stuff your doing is too much for me to get my head around, but will be unstoppable when its finished! Yeah, your right about the FMU, i even tried fitting it with an adjuster le=ast night, but even with the slightest boost, it just ran lumpy, and only just made it around the block!! Im not getting much lag at all, its pretty much an instant hit, i raced an Audi yesterday (wasnt a fast 1), but i just got wheelspin through 1st and 2nd gear, so an LSD would really be helpful, but if your careful enough with the gas pedal, you can put the power down, just not all of it straight away!! And id already adjusted the dump valve, but either way, its going to blow out monitored air, which is why i moved the MAF sensor. Im controlling the boost by the actuator, you can see the boost controller mounted on the engine lifting bracket.
Im having a different problem now, it goes like a rocket up to about 4200rpm, then the power seems to drop off. After that it drives like a N/A car. I think its got to be leaning out at higher RPM, as the boost level stays the same! So i think the next step has to be a 3.5 or 4 bar fuel pressure regulator, the escort cosworth one fits straight into the fuel rail, without having to but adapters or anything, also the VAG engines take exactly the same regulator (just have side mounted vacume/boost feed) so either 1 will do!

 

[warrenpenalver]

sounds like massive lean out top of rev range. you dont want to run it like that as it will melt! slight lean out is bad enough as it will run quicker then generate massive amounts of heat doing it and melt pistons. overfuelling generally isnt so bad, yu just get borewash and oil contamination which can be dealt with by 1000 mile oil changes! ideally you need fuelling spot on and you cant do that without a decent wideband lambda guage.

you shouldnt need to move the MAF. remember if the dump valve is working right then its just a momentary release of air when throttle shuts, so engines putting in no fuel anyway as rpm drops and the dump valve should be long shut before the rpm drops to the point the ISCV idles the engine.

 

[PumaNoob]

When i had my MAF sensor next to the air filter, even after tightening the dump valve spring, the MAF has still monitored for the air going out the dump valve, so i was getting big overfuelling, and backfiring out the exhaust, and black smoke!! And a big carbon build up in the exhaust. As soon as i moved the MAF next to the throttle, it all stopped, the spark plugs werent getting the sooty coating, the lambda werent getting the sooty coating, and there was no more bogging down after gear changing, or backfiring. I cant speak for any1 elses car, but mine has definately made a big difference. The way i see it, it cant harm your car if you put it next to the throttle body, as alot of turbo cars have the maf inside the intake manifold for these exact reasons!
Yeah, i think your right about it leaning out mid/top of rev range, as the N/A engine regulator only works off vacume, so id have thought that it allows the same amount of fuel through when on boost, as when its at 0psi! If i get a rising rate regulator as BlackKnight suggested, it should increase the fuel rail pressure according to boost, and keep the fuelling adequate. I know this isnt the "ideal" way to do it, as getting an aftermarket ECU and getting it mapped to sort out the fuelling would be the correct way, but its way out of my budget, and im not going for major power, and in my opinion, the cost of these ecu's and getting them fitted, and then rolling rd time to get it mapped, just isnt justified for the power im looking for. If i was going for 300 or 400bhp, then spending £2500 getting it set up is still alot, but more worth it. Id be better off selling the Puma as standard, and buying a faster car!!My car with the standard engine, with the racing puma map, full milteck exhaust with sports cat, cosworth brakes, and fully polly bushed would be worth at least £2500 to someone, so adding the price of fitting an aftermarket ECU, i could get something alot quicker! I just want something more driveable, at a reasonable cost!

 

[BlackKnight1982]

it was a inline one after the fuel pressure regulator i will ak him what make it was.
Some info for u the fuel rail pressure for the puma is 2.7 Bar = 39.15 PSI
a 12:1 ratio fuel regulator means 12 psi of fuel for every 1 psi of boost.
So if your running say 7 PSI, (7x12=84 + 39.15 = 123.15 PSI at full boost) so its no wonder its running a tad rich! What sort of boost pressure u running? It may be a dodgy FMU like warren said. Ive seen a nice BEGI one which you can adjust onset (before the boost starts if you need too), maximum pressure and you can adjust the rate of gain, making it ideal for aftermarket turbo's and superchargers conversions.

 

[BlackKnight1982]

I think a FMU wud be best suited to a centrifugial supercharger as the delivery is smooth & progress right from idle to maximum revs and doesn't instantly spike on boost like a turbo car does.

 

[BlackKnight1982]

Getting Technical

The FMU, also know as a “boost dependant fuel pressure regulator,” only increases fuel rail pressure when boost is applied to the reference port on the FMU. This regulator is in the return fuel line and is downstream of the static fuel pressure regulator. The FMU is a simple mechanical device that can be calibrated by changing the internal ring and spacer. Inside an FMU is a piston. The boost pressure comes from the manifold to a fitting on the FMU and applies pressure to a washer sitting on the piston. The larger the washer, the more pressure it applies on the piston. The piston pressure blocks the flow of fuel down the return line. This backup creates a higher line pressure because the fuel cannot freely pass through.

As explained in the previous article, there are two key ingredients to making horsepower: fuel and air. We are going to discuss the most popular methods of increasing the quantity of fuel, to support the air entering the motor under boost, and its relationship to the amount of power you are trying to make.

3 Steps to Delivering More Fuel

Traditionally, there are three most common ways to deliver more fuel to your engine. They are:

* Upgrade Your Injector Scenario
* Utilize the Power of the FMU w/ Existing Injectors
* Use a Computer Programmer to Regulate Fuel Management With Upgraded Injectors

Upgrade Your Injector Scenario

To get more fuel, you can run larger injectors, increase the pressure to the injectors you already have, or add an auxiliary set of injectors. The auxiliary set of injectors usually squirts fuel into the manifold and requires a secondary injector driver to tell the injectors when to fire and for how long. This method is effective for street cars because it lets the car run like normal with smaller injectors. It is also good for cruising because it prevents the motor from overloading with fuel and stumbling. It then allows the second set of larger injectors to give more fuel when you are trying to make power. The major downside is that this method is very expensive because of the additional components required. Furthermore, it can be very difficult to tune because of the wide adjustment range of a completely separate set of injectors. This common dilemma led to the eventual creation of the FMU.

Utilize the Power of the FMU

The FMU is great because it allows the car to run normally on a small injector, but can also increase the rail pressure under boost which, in turn, forces more fuel through the same size orifice. The fuel that the FMU adds has a direct relationship to the boost pressure. The proportionality is usually stated in a ratio, for example 12:1. This means that the FMU will add 12psi of fuel for every psi of boost. (For example, 10psi of boost will add 120psi of fuel pressure.) When all is said and done, this could net a total of about 140psi of fuel pressure which is often too much for a little injector to handle. It is also the reason most people opt for a combination of larger injector and lower ratio of FMU. This is an ideal setup because it allows the same quantity of fuel but at a lower pressure which is more constant for tuning and less fatiguing on the injectors.

Computer Programs and Fuel Management

The third most popular method of increasing fuel is to add larger injectors and use a computer chip to calibrate and control them. This often can cause the car to run great under boost. However, it is often harder to mange when the car is a daily driver or when cold started. Even this method only can supply enough fuel to support a given amount of pressure. Eventually it, too, requires an injector so large that it would not be suitable for any type of street driving - just racing.

Conclusion

This is why the FMU has become so popular. It offers great versatility for street and strip use. You get the ability to support horsepower and still have the street ability of a daily driver. It is also mechanical and not very complex, so there is little chance of having any reliability issues. The final attribute of an FMU, that has make it popular, is its ability to be easily recalibrated (for a relatively low cost) to match the injector choices you make.

For specific information about FMU system, start with our Feature FMU page and select an application.

 

[BlackKnight1982]

What is an FMU?

Horsepower is a result of two key components: air and fuel. The supercharger itself, whether a centrifugal, roots, or twin screw, really only provides one of the two major ingredients for making more power. Each supercharger kit is a complete system that increases both air and fuel flow into the engine. A supplemental fuel system upgrade must complete the package.

The FMU Explained

There are several methods used by various supercharger kit manufacturers to deliver supplemental fuel to the engine under boost. An FMU, or “Fuel Management Unit”, is the chief component used for one of these methods. An FMU is often referred to as a boost-dependant fuel pressure regulator. The FMU is essentially a variable fuel-pressure regulator that automatically raises fuel pressure as boost rises.

Depending on the capabilities of the stock fuel pump, a booster pump may be used in conjunction with the FMU. The FMU is downstream (after) of the stock regulator. As boost pressure begins to rise, the FMU starts restricting the flow of fuel returning to the gas tank. Like a garden hose, if the flow is restricted, the pressure increases. The increase in restriction results in an increase in the pressure of the fuel being delivered to the factory fuel injectors. Higher fuel rail pressure enables the fuel injectors to deliver more fuel in the same amount of time than they do at the static stock fuel pressure.

The FMU is calibrated precisely for each supercharger system - a rise in fuel pressure equals a directly proportional rise in boost. The ingenious simplicity of the system means that no computer recalibration is required. Without the FMU, the stock fuel system would not be able to maintain an air-to-fuel ratio low enough to prevent a lean condition. FMU-based systems are the most popular with supercharger kit manufactures.

Other Types of Supplemental Fuel Systems Used With Supercharger Kits

Some supercharger kits take a different approach to supplemental fuel supply. One of these alternate methods, to an FMU-based approach, uses an auxiliary EFI computer. This computer is connected to one or more separate fuel injector(s) installed just before the intake manifold. The auxiliary injector(s) work like a TBI to provide additional fuel to all cylinders. These systems do not require an increase in fuel pressure over stock and, therefore, the fuel flowing through the factory injectors is not increased.

On most supercharger systems, booster pumps are not needed unless the supercharger kit manufacture determines (through testing) that the stock fuel pump is not able to provide enough volume to supply both the factory and auxiliary injectors. These kits do not require recalibration of the factory computer.

The most effective way of compensating for the additional fuel required under boost is to replace all of the factory fuel injectors with higher-flowing ones. This method requires recalibration, or replacement, of the factory computer with a new fuel map appropriate for the new injectors. Replacing all of the fuel injectors is expensive and labor intensive, thus making this fuel system upgrade the least popular among supercharger kit manufacturers.

It should also be noted that some engines are designed with proprietary fuel injection that makes swapping out injectors impossible. Just like the others, supercharger kits getting this fuel system treatment may require a booster pump or replacement of the stock pump depending on the application.

Conclusion

So, that's the bare-bones of an FMU. In the next installment, we'll get into more the more detailed and technical aspect of this darling of the Fuel Management program - the FMU.

 

[PumaNoob]

http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=420a%20Sleeper%20Part%205" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thats where i got some info from about the FMU, and the increas seems to be the same for people doing turbo and S/C conversions on alot of sites, but obviusly my car dosent respond to the 12:1!!
I was thinking the same thing about it working on a S/C better then a turbo, as it would gradually feed the increased fuel in, rather then just dumping a load of fuel in at a lower speed! Im so jealous that your getting the S/C set up, i might do another project after this 1, and supercharge that! have you got any links to that BEGI FMU?