Budget Puma TURBO Project!!

[PumaNoob]

Im trying not to go past 8 psi, ive had it at 10psi, but i think 8 is about safe, if i was going to map it properly, and get the ignition retarded at higher boost, id probarbly go up to about 12psi, not sure if it can handle it, but id give it a go. Ill get the fuelling right, and then ill try 10psi i think, with the lower compression, it should be able to take it, 1 thing i would say, DONT get 1 of these cheap chinese boost controllers ive got, you get boost spike with it, and the increments are no good, im going to get a different 1, not a bleed valve, but a ball and spring type, you can adjust them to pretty much anything you want, and you can pick them up about £25.
I think im just going to bite the bullet and get a fuel pump, my mate has an FSE systec 230lph fuel pump for an XR2i, but im not sure if it will fit. He only wants £40 for it, its brand new, but ill have piece of mind then, and i know the pump is up to the job, then if i get a rising rate regulator, it should do the job! Any luck finding out what regulator your mate used yet?

 

[warrenpenalver]

wether you need a fuel pump changing depends on how long your injector duration is at its peak compared to standard. If its not much more then youll be fine. After all it can fuel upto 200bhp NA quite easily.

Mine was running standard pump and fuel pressure at just over 200BHP on TB's and due to a shit map it was still capable of running rich throughout the rev range until WOT where it had been mapped right.

You need to think that your running whats likely a 10 year old fuel pump with 100k miles on it at a higher load than normal for more of the time.

Look up the pump charateristics and calculate your maximum fuel pressure and amount of fuel your using to see if its within pump specs.

I suspect youll be fine but you really need an ON car lambda with an alarm feature so when pump starts to wear etc you know when to change it. £200 pounds or so but worth every penny and youll be able to sell it on for a good price if plans change. Im looking at the innovate motorsports one for my car.

When fitting a new pump for the extra money it costs theres no good reason not to fit an uprated intank pump.

You can probably make the sytec pump fit with a bit of modification if it wont go. Youll find mk3 and 4 fiesta tanks and pumps are all the same basic concept just upgraded over years.

 

[PumaNoob]

Thanks for the info mate, ill definately look into it. But getting the spec's for the fuel pump are hard, i need to know how much the standard pump can flow. and at what pressure! I also need to know the flow rate on the standard green injectors, and at what pressure! If the pump it up to the job, but the injectors are already at max then an adjustable fuel pressure regulator should work, increasing the fuel pressure a tad at high RPM. I dont want to go for bigger injectors and lower fuel pressure, because although it would allow for more fuelling, the spray pattern wont be right, and it will probarbly open up a whole new world of problems! The other thing to remember is that you got 200bhp N/A, and you need more fuel pressure to get the same power from a force fed engine.So theoretically, id need this pump to be able to fuel a N/A car at about 240bhp to enable mine to run at 200bhp. Does anybody know if the fuel rail pressure was increased, will the ecu (TAPE) decrease the injector duration, or is it not self learning? As far as im aware, i thought it was a self learning ecu within a certain margin, but i have no evidence to back this theory up??

 

[warrenpenalver]

All EECV ecus have self learning capability for small changes. Its designed so it can adjust to take into account wear on engine, sensor wear etc.

 

[PumaNoob]

Ok thanks mate. The problem has come back, still loosing power after 4000rpm, i think the racing puma map could be the problem, it was done by pumaspeed, and i dont think it is working with my turbo set up. For starters, the mil light should have come on when its been running really rich, and ive ran it without the lambda sensor plugged in, and it didnt change a thing, i ran it with a broken lambda that when used on my other puma, it makes it run terrible, and it made no difference on this puma! So if anybody knows of someone selling a TAPE ECU with transponder and transponder reciever, id be interested!

 

[warrenpenalver]

until youve got a Lambda guage to find out whats going on, id leave it be.

 

[PumaNoob]

Just an update, i got my Air/Fuel ratio gauge last night, so spent most of this morning wiring it in! The pic aint too great as there is a reflection in the A/F lense, but ill take some pics when its a bit darker. The blue bulbs in the dash blew, so ive wired in a white one for now, but will put it back to blue when i get some blue bulbs!

Also had to replace pillar pod with a double pillar pod

 

[BlackKnight1982]

does the gauge work?? Have you got any info on your air/fuel ratio when u have been running it? Is it running lean after 4k rpm?

 

[PumaNoob]

Havent got around to trying it yet mate, as i was busy after fitting it, but ive got an adjustable Fuel pressure regulator on the way, hopefully might come today, and i want to fit that before i try it again, as it has fuel pressure gauge on it, so i can see if its leans off but fuel pressure stays up, then an FMU adjustment will fix it.If it leans out but fuel pressure drops, theni know i need a new fuel pump. Also have a standard ECU to try, so im pretty sure once these bits come, ill have it running mint. Good call on the Air/Fuel ratio gauge, cant really set it up properly without 1!

 

[Scotty1.7]

Mind if ask whats the total Bill so far?

You did say this was a budget build and you have progressed remarkably quickly with this!!

 

[PumaNoob]

I was just going into this with another member of this forum, ill break it down for you.
Turbo : £120 from Fleebay
Downpipe with cat : £50 from Fleebay (off a van aaken turbo kit)
SS Decompression plate : £40 + P&P from lasermaster ( email [email protected] )
2 ford head gaskets : £50 (i cant remember if they were £50 or £55) a friend in the motor trade got these direct from ford
Custom pipes : £25, i brought the pipe from a pipe supplier and bent it myself on a hydraulic bender
Silicone hoses : £12, a mate had an old rover 220 turbo hose kit, so i used this, only needed to buy 1 reducer hose for £12
A/F gauge & Double pillar pod : £28 from http://www.mcgillmotorsports.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Boost gauge and boost controller : £15 fleebay
Conrod bolts : £100 from shawspeed (not really necissary unless goin over standard rev limit)
Head bolts : £20 from ford (1.6 zetec se bolts are 2mm longer to account for the 2mm decomp plate) got my mate to get them as they want £5 a bolt!! WARNING: These bolts need to be machined to fit, as the washer is fixed on these, but loose on the puma bolts, so 4 need the fixed washer grinding down slightly or they wont fit!
Oil return for sump : £4 from fleebay
FMU : Around £30 from fleebay,
Intercooler : £30 from Fleebay
Dump valve : Free from a mate

£524 in total, but as i said, the con rod bolts arent really neccissary so £424 without!
You can also run about 6 or 7 psi without lowering compression so theres a lot of work and cost cut out there, so £304 without lowering compression.

Think thats it, let me know if theres anything ive missed out, there may be some bits ive forgot, but what brought the whole price down for me is when i got the car, it had full Miltek exhaust including mani and speed flow cat, that i couldnt use, so sold that for nearly the same amout as the whole turbo conversion cost!

 

[Scotty1.7]

Mod Edit :Quote not needed if post before

S##t a brick mate thats fantastic!!!

What do you reckon your running know?

It may have been put earlier in the post but i'm not sure.

Im intrested in this, but its going to be a long way off before i seriously consider which route id take

Think my driving style would prefer Supercharger

 

[PumaNoob]

Supercharger is definately better mate, i did plan on a supercharger 1st, but this was the easier option, and i wanted to see what the standard engine would respond like to boost. It was loosing power after 4000rpm, which hopefully i have sorted now, but raced my mates 160bhp rover coupe, and left him standing from a rolling start, but once i hit the 4000rpm, lost power and he pulled back and over took me, also left a 216bhp rover 220 turbo, but again lost power so got left behind, but id estimate about the equivalent of 145bhp with the loss of power, but once i get it sorted, id estimate around 180bhp, but i could be totaly wrong, only a rolling rd session will put be able to say whats what. To be honest, i think even when running properly, i dont think it will beat the 220 turbo, but as its a bit lighter, and alot less lag, might be very interesting!!

 

[warrenpenalver]

good price.

Be interesting to see how well set up you can achieve with manual kit! I will be well impressed if you can get well balanced fuelling throughout the rev range.

 

[PumaNoob]

Ha ha, so will i, but i think that ill have to go for optimum idle, rich at the start of the rev range, then fade out to optimum at the top of the range. Should be acheivable, and should be a driveble car, but a bit thirsty! With an adjustable Fuel pressure reg, and adjustable FMU, i think i should be able to get the balance right. My theory is, lower the idle fuel rail pressure, so the ecu increases the duration of the injectors, then increase the ratio of the FMU, to get more fuel through the longer opening injectors. And vice versa, if i increase the idle fuel rail pressure, the injector opening times will shorten, so the higher fuel pressure at high rpm wont make as much difference. Thats my theory, but we all know that sometimes theory goes out the window when it comes to getting it done in real life! My FPR or FMU havent arrived yet, so hopefully tommorow!!

 

[PumaNoob]

Sorry its taken so long to update, ive been busy. However, ive been working on it since this morning, and ive still got the problem of power above 4000rpm. Ive got my air/fuel ratio gauge on, and adjustable fuel regulator, i took off the FMU as it was over fuelling on its lowest setting, but the powerboost valve is perfect, ive adjusted it to just below 2.0 bar at idle, and it keeps the fuelling really good through the rev range, optimum on idle, and rich when accelerating, so im quite pleased with that. But when accelerating, the fuel rail pressure is constant, and its rich, but not flooding and bogging down, it took me a few attempts to get it just rich when accelerating, but theres still no power at high rpm. Ive tried a standard ecu, and its the same, ive changed spark plugs, coil pack, and ignition leads incase it was a misfire, but none of it has made a difference! Now im stuck, and think i need to look at the characteristics of the engine, i really could do with a map of the puma ECU, to find out what its doing just after 4000rpm, does it take the advanced inlet cam off, does it change the ignition spark pattern?? Im just stuck now, its a fast little car, but is capable of alot more.

 

[PumaNoob]

Ive found the problem, or at leaste what seems to be part of the problem, the exhaust seems to be quite restrictive, so i took it off, and it flew through the whole rev range!! Its going to be crazy quick now!! Ive got a miltek exhaust on my other puma, but its also a sleeve fit, so i might need to get a custom down pipe made up, but it will be worth every penny if it drives anything like it just drove!! :lol:

 

[BlackKnight1982]

you will have to get a video of it on youtube or on here!

 

[PumaNoob]

Yeah, but it was a bit loud without the exhaust on, so i didnt want to make a nuisance of myself! But ill try and get some footage, and hopefully try and get the air/fuel gauge and boost gauge in shot so you can see its fuelling perfect with just a powerboost valve and nothing else!! And i can 100% guarentee that the standard fuel pump is up to the job, the fuel rail pressure dosent drop at all, ill see what it goes up to tommorow when on full boost. Ill try and get some video as soon as possible.

 

[BlackKnight1982]

when you say power boost valve do you mean the 1.7:1 ratio pressure regulator made by FSE? Did you replace the original fuel pressure regulator with that one?? Also a quick question what colour is the signal wire on the lambda sensor??