My Puma 1.7, more than a year on (A works in progress)

[tuonokid]

Hi Wild E
I knew you would answer this. :grin: The problem for me is I used the existing holes on the Focus stub axles and the locations of the holes really don't suit the brackets on the existing Puma sensors so I had to fix the sensors in place by pressing them in with an alloy bracket off the back axle bolts. With the escort sensors having a straight rather than an angled cable entry into the sensor I can actually drill and tap the back of the stub axles to fix them in place properly. To be honest the Puma sensors might have broke when I took them out of the drums so I'm not really worried about the extra expense.
Barry

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I did the following. Yes, the holes don't match. Enlarged the bigger opening to 15 mm (needed for sensors). Used liquid metal (some 2K loctite, can find out exactly if you wish) to close the existing tapped installments for the old sensors. Then redrilled new holes and tapped them in for the puma sensors. And that was it. If you are using the brackets, there is a good chance the sensors are not fixed in securely and as the wheel shakes and vibrates a lot they might move and create gap that wasn't meant to be.
The best way for EXACT positioning of the holes for sensors is to use the existing stub axles for the drums. Just bolt them to the disc stub axles you are using on the back and you will have exact postioning. Regarding angled cable on sensor, you can (as I have done) move it to another side of the axle and then the angled cable is no more problem if you plan on using axle spacers. Just flip the drum stub axles from left to right disc stubs and you will have the mirror position of you sensor.
My initial problem was that I didn't do it like this and one of my ABS sensors was offset from his proper position for a mm (or even less). That was enough for the system to pass self test, but on slowing down it would grind and work erradically. When did rolling test of ABS found out that at low speeds sensor loses ring signalling and ABS kicks in.
When moved the sensor to its proper position, all the problems disapeared. If you can, measure the resistance of your rear ABS sensors. Readout should be in range of 1060-1160 Ohm. If it is so, they are operating correctly and buying and installing new sensors won't cure your problems.
If you have OBD scanner and a laptop, download forscan (http://www.forscan.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and make a rolling test of your ABS. That way you can monitor speed of each wheel and you will see instanly where is the problem
Wish I was a bit closer :-( , would sort it out in one afternoon :wink:

 

[748]

If you can, measure the resistance of your rear ABS sensors. Readout should be in range of 1060-1160 Ohm. If it is so, they are operating correctly and buying and installing new sensors won't cure your problems.

Just thought I'd stick my oar in here.
When I sorted out the FRP rear ABS, I got a reading of 1100 ohms on each sensor. However, when connected to an oscilloscope (with no movement of the hub) the good one gave a 'flat line'.
The bad one gave an uneven, erratic line.
Turns out the sensor had been distorted when fitted. A standard Puma loom had been fitted.
Just saying that the resistance test may not always be conclusive.
Paul

 

[748]

oops, double post!

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Wild E and Paul
I should have sat down and thought about it before I started work on the stub axles but as I said I used the existing holes meant for the Focus sensors but enlarged them and moved them in towards the stub axle centreline (as the Puma rings are smaller).I also had to fill the outside of the ring holes but I used slow setting araldite mixed with aluminium shavings. I have ended up with the sensors centered over the rings but as they have an angled wire exit the holes through the brackets are in the wrong place at the back of the stub axle (I had to grind off some material off the sensors to make them fit). When I buy the new straight sensors I can spin them so that the fastening holes are exactly where I want to drill the stub axles.
Wish I had the tackle to do your tests Paul but I'm sure the new sensors will do the job. Did you mean the sensor had been distorted, or the ring?
Barry

 

[748]

Hi Barry, the sensor itself had been forced into position, which effectively tried to straighten it out due to the interference with the spacer. Could only tell by comparing it with a good one.
I did a quick fix bodge, I now have two offside sensors fitted. When I get round to it I'll replace it with a proper complete loom, but it's working fine for now :grin:

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Paul
Yeah the offside sensor hasn't got as much of a bend on the wire exit so it's easier to use. It sounds like your FRP uses standard rear sensors which surprises me. I would have thought it would have the Escort 7 Estate ones. My nephew in law works at a famous motor factors so I get stuff fairly cheap so I'll let you know the price when I get mine. I'm hoping it's substantially cheaper than the £118 you see on Ebay.
Barry

 

[748]

No mate, it doesn't use standard Puma sensors, that was the problem. Someone before had tried in an attempt to fix the problem after rear brake refurb.
Yeah, let me know about the Escort loom please

 

[tuonokid]

No problem Paul. I'm glad I can get my nephew on the case as I think a lot of the advertisers use generic photos so what you see on the advert could turn out to be standard Puma sensors so I can see him ordering stuff up and then having to send it back. Rather him than me :grin:
Barry

 

[tuonokid]

Decided to start on my rear ABS today and get it sorted then I can get the car MOT'd. This was how I'd fixed the sensors to the stub axles as the bracket holes on the sensors had finished up in the wrong place for me to drill and tap the stub axles.



As can be seen it's far from ideal when compared to a screw fixing. If I get the Escort sensors they have a straight wire entry into the sensor so they can spin within the stub axle holes so that I can position the screw fixing where it suits best.



10 mins later the ABS loom was out.



This is how the sensors look out of the car. The offside one is the one with the 90 deg end, obviously the lesser bend is the nearside one. This will be going over to my nephews so I can tell him what to order. From research on line this loom is intermoter 60010 and the one I'm after is Intermoter 60020 (Escort MK7 Estate)

 

[XAF]

You're a gent for doing all this homework for me Barry ready for when you help me do mine next year ;-)

 

[tuonokid]

Hi James
It's all part of the service :grin:
Barry

 

[tuonokid]

Picked these up from my nephew last night Intermoter 60020 rear ABS Sensors. They were bloody expensive at £138 but at least I don't have to send them back because they are not right.



First up I compared them with the standard ones. The axle fastenings seem to be in the right place but after measuring the loom I would say it's about 100mm wider than standard but better longer than shorter.



Tried fitting to the car and the fastening clips do fit but there are the curved guides missing which is probably a good thing as the cables are too long.



Just mocking up here but I'll cable tie the lead down after I've covered it up with split sheathing



I hope this photo explains all the faffing about I've been doing with these. The hole through the stub axle is the existing hole enlarged (Puma ones are bigger than Focus ones). The existing sensor is blue tacked to the side of the axle at the right angle it would be installed so using axle spacers the cable off the sensor would stop the sensor being installed. The new sensor is in position inside the spacer and there's no problem with this as the cable goes straight out the back of the sensor.



All I had to do then was drill and tap the hub (M5) so that I can properly fix the sensor to the stub axle. I think I'll use an M5 stud araldited into the axle with a S/S nyloc nut for ease of removal.



The existing sensor mount hole can just be seen to the right of the sensor (I used the old sensors for this photo).

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

I had the same problem. Solved it by moving the sensor to the other side of axle like this



Just be precise with the gap. Grind down back of stub axle slowly and check the gap regularly. Since you have a spare pair of sensors, you can check with it until you reach the gap of 0,6 mm as it should be

 

[tuonokid]

Hi Wild E
Yeah I realised that's what you did after seeing that you used the drum brake stub axles as a template. I didn't want to redrill my stub axles and further weaken them or buy another set so when I saw that the escort estate sensors would do what I wanted I was sold on the idea.
The grinding down is a pain in the a**e but I did it when I had the original sensors in place so I only have a little more to grind at each side. Did you see on this post earlier that I had drilled out the splash shields and put large rubber grommets in so that I can check the sensor gaps with feeler gauges?
Barry

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

The fact that pointed me in the direction of drilling another hole were http://pumabuild.com/pumacat/product_info.php?cPath=43_69_864&products_id=1080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
These are supposed to be the originals and they are redrilled on the opposite side. So I reckoned if Ford/Tickford thought it was OK, it probably is.
I just took the stub axles on my working table, put the hubs on and started to dremmel it slowly and checking the gap with feeler gauges along the way (had one ABS sensor spare; it was enough to put it in its place, push it all the way through and check the gap). When I reached the desired gap of 0,6 mm that was it. Put it on car and it worked right away!

 

[tuonokid]

Also the holes on the back side of the stub axles will suit the escort sensors better as they are about 100mm longer than the Puma ones. That's one of the good things about Ford the old parts bin mentality, you can get most things to fit with the minimum of bodging.
I got one of my mates at his work to grind down the indent for the circular part of the sensor on a machine but the rest of it I had to do by hand with a Dremmel same as you but I didn't use grindstones I used the cutting discs I used for the bodywork...they are awesome things!

 

[Wild E. Coyote]

Actually, I had one of those as well, but was affraid I might go to far. So took it slow and steady; with grindstones you can't go to far to fast! It took me some time, but not to much; I'd say about an hour for both of them with PLENTY of measuring...

 

[tuonokid]

The trouble with the grindstones is they wear out too quick and you also can't do a straight edge with them. My eyesights not too good now so there'll definitely be plenty of checking :grin:
you might be able to answer this for me as well the last time I was running up and down my drive on a few occasions I could hear a sound like really quiet machine gun fire coming from around the passenger door. I wonder if that was ABS related? It happened going forwards or backwards and then it stopped doing it.
Barry

 

[trublustu]

Hi Barry.
great thread..
Assuming your bearings are good could the abs sensor ring be fouling slightly under load?