It sounds steep but it's probably not terrible for a custom not off of the shelf bit of kit.
See what the other quotes come back like.
See what the other quotes come back like.
Charged & Puma'd Mk5 ZetecS
- Thread starter CherryVimto
- Start date
Help Support ProjectPuma:
mmc757
New member
Catalytic converters are getting legitimately more expensive due to materials costs right now, but they have always been subject to HUGE markups by garages. You might be able to save some money by buying your own Cat and Muffler and asking them to build a system around those parts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Car-Catalytic-Converters-Parts-for-2001-Ford-Puma/33629/bn_7013032703
For a "high flow" cat you can probably just step up the size a little bit to make room for the added flow for the turbo. Maybe look at units compatible with cars making the same amount of power your expecting...Maybe RS or ST units. Or just a universal 2.5" would probably be fine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=2.5+inch+catalytic+converter&_sacat=0
Stainless probably isn't necessary for the entire system either. You could save some money by going with mild or aluminized steel. I know its tempting to believe stainless is the right choice to avoid corrosion but think about how long OEM exhaust systems last in mild steel. Sometimes 20 years or more, even in harsh climates. For a car that's already as old as these ones, the odds of the exhaust falling apart before the rest of the car are pretty small.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Car-Catalytic-Converters-Parts-for-2001-Ford-Puma/33629/bn_7013032703
For a "high flow" cat you can probably just step up the size a little bit to make room for the added flow for the turbo. Maybe look at units compatible with cars making the same amount of power your expecting...Maybe RS or ST units. Or just a universal 2.5" would probably be fine:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=2.5+inch+catalytic+converter&_sacat=0
Stainless probably isn't necessary for the entire system either. You could save some money by going with mild or aluminized steel. I know its tempting to believe stainless is the right choice to avoid corrosion but think about how long OEM exhaust systems last in mild steel. Sometimes 20 years or more, even in harsh climates. For a car that's already as old as these ones, the odds of the exhaust falling apart before the rest of the car are pretty small.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
I was only thinking of going for a stainless system because the parts for the 'outlet' of the turbo are stainless.. and they are only stainless because that is the only material I could find those parts in.
The exhaust, if made out of mild steel, potentially lasting as long as the car makes perfect sense so I think I will be going for that. This also means I can get the guy down the road to weld it all together for me.
The outlet of the turbocharger is 3". Again, only because that was all I could get. So I may run 3" down and under the car to a 3" CAT then reduce down to the existing center section..
I removed the old PCV valve which rattled and didn't seal so I ordered a new one from Ford. When that arrived it rattled too so possibly a waste of money, but on the other hand peace of mind as it was a lot cleaner than the old one!!
I'm not convinced about having boosted pressure getting in the crank area even with a new PVC valve, so I have decided to modify the system.
I had previously posted that I had blanked off the vacuum holes in the painted inlet that I will be fitting to the engine. I am going to keep it like that but re-route the vacuum hose from the PCV round to the inlet side of the turbocharger so it always has some form of vacuum.
I also looked again at where to return the coolant from the turbocharger. I got a temp sensor adapter for a motorbike that I will fit in the hose that goes from the HCV back to the thermostat housing:
The exhaust, if made out of mild steel, potentially lasting as long as the car makes perfect sense so I think I will be going for that. This also means I can get the guy down the road to weld it all together for me.
The outlet of the turbocharger is 3". Again, only because that was all I could get. So I may run 3" down and under the car to a 3" CAT then reduce down to the existing center section..
I removed the old PCV valve which rattled and didn't seal so I ordered a new one from Ford. When that arrived it rattled too so possibly a waste of money, but on the other hand peace of mind as it was a lot cleaner than the old one!!
I'm not convinced about having boosted pressure getting in the crank area even with a new PVC valve, so I have decided to modify the system.
I had previously posted that I had blanked off the vacuum holes in the painted inlet that I will be fitting to the engine. I am going to keep it like that but re-route the vacuum hose from the PCV round to the inlet side of the turbocharger so it always has some form of vacuum.
I also looked again at where to return the coolant from the turbocharger. I got a temp sensor adapter for a motorbike that I will fit in the hose that goes from the HCV back to the thermostat housing:
mmc757
New member
That looks like a plan!
I wouldn't reduce exhaust though. If 3" is what your starting with than run the 3" all the way out. Its probably a little big but that's okay...just crank up the boost! LOL
I wouldn't reduce exhaust though. If 3" is what your starting with than run the 3" all the way out. Its probably a little big but that's okay...just crank up the boost! LOL
CherryVimto
Well-known member
It wouldn't have been 3" if I had been able to get the adapter for the turbo 'outlet' in a smaller size.
I know Erroll had issues on his build with the first bend from the turbo being restrictive so I didn't think 3" could do any harm. It wasn't until after it arrived and I actually had it in my hand, I though 'Jeez that's big!' :lol:
I actually had both of those parts cut down so the first bend would be closer to the turbo to clear the PAS pump, but it still isn't small enough. So the plan is to relocate the PAS pump to the front of the engine. Mine leaks and needs replacing so I may as well relocate it at the same time.. just need to find the correct pipes.
I know Erroll had issues on his build with the first bend from the turbo being restrictive so I didn't think 3" could do any harm. It wasn't until after it arrived and I actually had it in my hand, I though 'Jeez that's big!' :lol:
I actually had both of those parts cut down so the first bend would be closer to the turbo to clear the PAS pump, but it still isn't small enough. So the plan is to relocate the PAS pump to the front of the engine. Mine leaks and needs replacing so I may as well relocate it at the same time.. just need to find the correct pipes.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
As posted earlier in the thread, I bought a 'cobra' pipe which is basically a Saab inlet pipe.
Wasn't overly cheap but that's the price I paid to ensure I had the correct 'item' to fit on to the turbo...
After measuring/mocking it's placement on my spare engine, it was far too 'tall' and would have been well over the top of the engine... so I set about chopping the middle out and joining the 2 ends with a silicone joiner...
The pipe ends were slightly different size compared to the silicone joined but they will clamp up nicely.
I've ordered a barbed fitting to go in this hole which will be for the relocated vac pipe from the PCV valve...
Wasn't overly cheap but that's the price I paid to ensure I had the correct 'item' to fit on to the turbo...
After measuring/mocking it's placement on my spare engine, it was far too 'tall' and would have been well over the top of the engine... so I set about chopping the middle out and joining the 2 ends with a silicone joiner...
The pipe ends were slightly different size compared to the silicone joined but they will clamp up nicely.
I've ordered a barbed fitting to go in this hole which will be for the relocated vac pipe from the PCV valve...
CherryVimto
Well-known member
Parts arrived for the turbo coolant lines.
Banjo fitting for the coolant inlet..
And coolant outlet..
I had a black one in my watch list for almost a week.. and the day I wanted to buy it, it was out of stock. So, blue was the next choice.
And the 1/8 NPT fitting for the block..
Banjo fitting for the coolant inlet..
And coolant outlet..
I had a black one in my watch list for almost a week.. and the day I wanted to buy it, it was out of stock. So, blue was the next choice.
And the 1/8 NPT fitting for the block..
Good progress. As they say for turbocharged engines the best exhaust is no exhaust meaning that in turbo application you should have it as free as possible. Also the turbocharger mutes a bit the noise so you can get away with a 3" without the exhuast deafening you.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
New 'port' on the turbo intel for the PCV vacuum..
CherryVimto
Well-known member
Just had a good morning sorting through all the parts I've collected for this project and found I've got more parts that I thought! I need to order a length of coolant pipe and find some hose clips/clamps.
Other than that, I'm basically ready to start doing this!
To give an idea of how I'm getting the turbo connected up...
Oil:
1/8 NPT - 1/4NPT oil pressure switch adapter to braided teflon AN4..
..AN4 braided teflon pipe to braided teflon banjo..
..and return (to be re-made to connect to sump)..
Cooling:
1/8 NPT to 8mm barb from the block/water jacket..
..piped to 8mm barbed banjo..
..piped to 8mm barbed outlet, in turn piped to coolant temp sensor adapter (with 1/4 NPT 8mm barb) fitted in the HCV hose (returning coolant to thermostat housing)..
PCV:
PCV valve with adapted vac pipe..
..connected to the turbo inlet..
The turbo coolant pipe is going to be very close to the manifold so I will get some heat shielding/covering for those pipes.
Other than that, I'm basically ready to start doing this!
To give an idea of how I'm getting the turbo connected up...
Oil:
1/8 NPT - 1/4NPT oil pressure switch adapter to braided teflon AN4..
..AN4 braided teflon pipe to braided teflon banjo..
..and return (to be re-made to connect to sump)..
Cooling:
1/8 NPT to 8mm barb from the block/water jacket..
..piped to 8mm barbed banjo..
..piped to 8mm barbed outlet, in turn piped to coolant temp sensor adapter (with 1/4 NPT 8mm barb) fitted in the HCV hose (returning coolant to thermostat housing)..
PCV:
PCV valve with adapted vac pipe..
..connected to the turbo inlet..
The turbo coolant pipe is going to be very close to the manifold so I will get some heat shielding/covering for those pipes.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
Coolant pipe arrived and jubilee clips to clamp the turbo inlet together.
I would have used the intercooler clamps but as that part will be behind the engine I'm not too bothered about how it looks.
Also got something to cover part of the firewall...
I would have used the intercooler clamps but as that part will be behind the engine I'm not too bothered about how it looks.
Also got something to cover part of the firewall...
CherryVimto
Well-known member
Finally started to get this turbocharger on...
Stripped off alternator, inlet and PCV valve/housing. Then fitted oil pressure switch adapter, refitted the pressure switch and the fittings for the oil supply..
I am very glad I actually did this as when I went to remove the pressure switch it was able to undo it with virtually no effort. I could have loosened it with my fingers!
The fitting on the side was angled lower than I would have liked, but I had to do that to clear the PVC housing.
All back together..
I possibly didn't need the jubilee clips as that join should always be under vacuum, but used them for peace of mind..
Fitted a section of the piping I had already made to connect the intercooler to the throttle body..
BOV is the blurry thing in the background!
Next job is to remove the exhaust manifold. Someone should hopefully look at getting the turbo flange welded to that on Monday then let me know when he will have time to do it for me... hopefully during the week.
He may not have time to make the oil return for me for at least 2 weeks or so.. I will see what I can make myself while I'm waiting.
As long as I have got the turbo on the manifold I have lots of stuff I can do while I wait.
Rough list of what is left to do once the exhaust is off, kind of in this order:
Weld flange to manifold and mount turbo
On spare engine:
Mock up coolant supply line to turbo
*On car (using the turbo & manifold to mock up)
Heat shield/protect bulkhead
Make inlet pipework (also piping it to BOV)
Make pipework from turbo to intercooler
On spare engine
Make oil return and drill sump
Remove sump
On car
Remove sump and fit sump from spare engine
Fit turbo coolant supply line
Make coolant return to HCV pipe
Fit manifold (with turbo) and connect coolant, oil supply and oil return
Connect intercooler and inlet piping to turbo
Connect new PVC vacuum hose to inlet
Fit new oil filter and fill with new oil
Change spark plugs
First start
Make new exhaust system and heat wrap downpipe
Drive and enjoy!
*I'm sure there is going to be clearance issues with the PAS pump so I will sort that as I go along..
Stripped off alternator, inlet and PCV valve/housing. Then fitted oil pressure switch adapter, refitted the pressure switch and the fittings for the oil supply..
I am very glad I actually did this as when I went to remove the pressure switch it was able to undo it with virtually no effort. I could have loosened it with my fingers!
The fitting on the side was angled lower than I would have liked, but I had to do that to clear the PVC housing.
All back together..
I possibly didn't need the jubilee clips as that join should always be under vacuum, but used them for peace of mind..
Fitted a section of the piping I had already made to connect the intercooler to the throttle body..
Next job is to remove the exhaust manifold. Someone should hopefully look at getting the turbo flange welded to that on Monday then let me know when he will have time to do it for me... hopefully during the week.
He may not have time to make the oil return for me for at least 2 weeks or so.. I will see what I can make myself while I'm waiting.
As long as I have got the turbo on the manifold I have lots of stuff I can do while I wait.
Rough list of what is left to do once the exhaust is off, kind of in this order:
Weld flange to manifold and mount turbo
On spare engine:
Mock up coolant supply line to turbo
*On car (using the turbo & manifold to mock up)
Heat shield/protect bulkhead
Make inlet pipework (also piping it to BOV)
Make pipework from turbo to intercooler
On spare engine
Make oil return and drill sump
Remove sump
On car
Remove sump and fit sump from spare engine
Fit turbo coolant supply line
Make coolant return to HCV pipe
Fit manifold (with turbo) and connect coolant, oil supply and oil return
Connect intercooler and inlet piping to turbo
Connect new PVC vacuum hose to inlet
Fit new oil filter and fill with new oil
Change spark plugs
First start
Make new exhaust system and heat wrap downpipe
Drive and enjoy!
*I'm sure there is going to be clearance issues with the PAS pump so I will sort that as I go along..
CherryVimto
Well-known member
I've kind of got a bit annoyed with this project, which I shouldn't do as I am trying to do something to a car that was never designed/intended to be done and should expect things to be difficult, but at the moment when I solve one problem another one crops up!
Using the chopped Focus 'tubular' manifold causes the 3" stainless bend I got for the exhaust outlet to sit over the end of the rear drive shaft. But that can't happen because on the car there is subframe there and also the PAS pump will be in the way. Also there is almost no space to get anything on the bottom of the turbo for the oil return and being able to clear the centre drive shaft.
I have now decided to use the original/stock exhaust manifold. Yes I know it won't flow brilliantly, but I also know Erroll had very good results using it. And as I am not going to be running big boost I'm not really that bothered about it.
I've also bought a smaller/tighter bend for the exhaust outlet - going from the 3" I put on down to 2.5".
With the stock manifold and the smaller/tighter bends I will gain around 5" vertically and at least 3" on the exhaust outlet side. May not sound much but on this car I need everything I can get!
Using the chopped Focus 'tubular' manifold causes the 3" stainless bend I got for the exhaust outlet to sit over the end of the rear drive shaft. But that can't happen because on the car there is subframe there and also the PAS pump will be in the way. Also there is almost no space to get anything on the bottom of the turbo for the oil return and being able to clear the centre drive shaft.
I have now decided to use the original/stock exhaust manifold. Yes I know it won't flow brilliantly, but I also know Erroll had very good results using it. And as I am not going to be running big boost I'm not really that bothered about it.
I've also bought a smaller/tighter bend for the exhaust outlet - going from the 3" I put on down to 2.5".
With the stock manifold and the smaller/tighter bends I will gain around 5" vertically and at least 3" on the exhaust outlet side. May not sound much but on this car I need everything I can get!
mmc757
New member
I wouldn't be too concerned about the intake manifold. Boost can compensate for anything on the intake side.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
I was talking about the exhaust manifoldmmc757 said:
k: Posted edited to make that clear.
mmc757
New member
Re-reading that seems totally apparent. Must not have had my head on straight the first time.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
All good, no worries!
For now, the water cooling is going to get postponed. The outlet on the back of the engine that I was going to use for the coolant supply I have realized is behind the PAS pump bracket, something that wasn't on the spare engine. I need to replace the PAS pump soon as it is leaking so when I do that I will also relocate it to the front of the engine then do the coolant lines for the turbo straight after. I've made the coolant lines ready so it will be a 20 minute job to connect them up.
Now I have decided to use the standard exhaust manifold, that has made this a whole lot easier. This has given me the opportunity to properly mock up parts properly.
From a local(ish) scrap yard I went looking for an oil return pipe - found one on a Fiesta Diesel which I promptly grabbed. Also got a fitting for the sump. I was going to remove the sump from the spare engine, drill it and then fit that to the car, but I've decided to just remove the 'middle' part of the sump and drill it from below.
Ends of the jubilee clips on the inlet are far too long.. going to cut them off before I wrap it in heat reflective tape.
Exhaust manifold will get some heat wrap.
New 2.5" bend(s) which will replace the stainless 3" bend
For now, the water cooling is going to get postponed. The outlet on the back of the engine that I was going to use for the coolant supply I have realized is behind the PAS pump bracket, something that wasn't on the spare engine. I need to replace the PAS pump soon as it is leaking so when I do that I will also relocate it to the front of the engine then do the coolant lines for the turbo straight after. I've made the coolant lines ready so it will be a 20 minute job to connect them up.
Now I have decided to use the standard exhaust manifold, that has made this a whole lot easier. This has given me the opportunity to properly mock up parts properly.
From a local(ish) scrap yard I went looking for an oil return pipe - found one on a Fiesta Diesel which I promptly grabbed. Also got a fitting for the sump. I was going to remove the sump from the spare engine, drill it and then fit that to the car, but I've decided to just remove the 'middle' part of the sump and drill it from below.
Ends of the jubilee clips on the inlet are far too long.. going to cut them off before I wrap it in heat reflective tape.
Exhaust manifold will get some heat wrap.
New 2.5" bend(s) which will replace the stainless 3" bend
Nice progress. I wouldn't be too worried using the oem manifold. You can see that ford itself has used a very similar looking manifold for the 1.6 ecoboost. Small pipes and short distance to the turbo mean quick spool and response.
Also regarding the downpipe as far as I know VAG 1.8 20vt tuners typically use a 2.5" downpipe for 240+ bhp applications.
Also regarding the downpipe as far as I know VAG 1.8 20vt tuners typically use a 2.5" downpipe for 240+ bhp applications.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
Unfortunately I have made next to no progress recently.
I had fitted the oil feed for the turbo and most of the intercooler piping but the next MOT had snuck up and reared it's ugly head... once I had blanked off the oil feed and removed the intercooler piping and replaced it with the EOM inlet pipe and a random air filter it passed with a few advisories.
I'm still waiting for the template/flange/adapter plate for the original exhaust manifold. If I don't get anywhere soon I may start looing at making it myself.
I had fitted the oil feed for the turbo and most of the intercooler piping but the next MOT had snuck up and reared it's ugly head... once I had blanked off the oil feed and removed the intercooler piping and replaced it with the EOM inlet pipe and a random air filter it passed with a few advisories.
I'm still waiting for the template/flange/adapter plate for the original exhaust manifold. If I don't get anywhere soon I may start looing at making it myself.
CherryVimto
Well-known member
Still no progress. I'm still waiting for the flange to be made to mount the turbo. I've started to find out if someone local to me can make one.
In the mean time, I'm looking at aftermarket ECUs and have found something interesting. I'm working through the ECU pinouts and converting them over to an ECU which I am going to build myself.
I think I have got the majority of it done, but there are still things I need to work out/research.
The setup will ideally be plug 'n play directly on to the existing loom but I may consider getting another loom and making my own.
If I can't get the turbo flange at a cost that I can afford, I do have a set of carbs that I bought many months ago which I can get up and running with the ECU I am going to build...
In the mean time, I'm looking at aftermarket ECUs and have found something interesting. I'm working through the ECU pinouts and converting them over to an ECU which I am going to build myself.
I think I have got the majority of it done, but there are still things I need to work out/research.
The setup will ideally be plug 'n play directly on to the existing loom but I may consider getting another loom and making my own.
If I can't get the turbo flange at a cost that I can afford, I do have a set of carbs that I bought many months ago which I can get up and running with the ECU I am going to build...
