Project 'M'

[Longyear]

Time for another tinker with the car, and more specifically my Torque Limiter Bypass Switch, which has felt a little too 'out of reach' in the centre console. I was intending to move it into the blank switch space on the (silver) dial cover (near the main heater vents) but after removing the dial cover I realized that the switch blanking plate that I was going to fit the switch into is really long and 'tunnel like' and my switch would not fit into it. So I decided to put the switch somewhere else.

Drill and stuff out. Kettle on!;

So I removed the gear/centre console once more, and retrieved my switch. I had to remove the switch from the wiring as I needed to extend the wiring, to reach it's planned new location;

Not even 10 minutes of drilling and fettling and here we go. Now I know it looks it, but the switch is actually nowhere near my knee when driving. Go on, admit it, it's what you were thinking wasn't it? :

Random shot of the back of the car, showing how ridiculously high it's sitting at the back (taken to persuade my wife a.k.a "the Finance Director" that I need some lowered coil springs asap!). More urgently, look at my bloody garage door. Bloody New Builds ! . House is only 6 years old, and I've spent £200 getting the garage door fixed the last two winters, when the mechanism broke 'due to the cold'... This is the 3rd failure; it's getting ripped out soon for a new roller... Anyone recommend someone who can do me a cheap roller door? ;

.....in it's new position the torque limiter bypass switch now works brilliantly; far more intuitive, just a quick flick of the left hand and you can't miss it. Happy Bunny..... Right, what else can I tinker with.... I'm tempted to remove my rear wiper and plug it up as I think it really improves the look and lines of the car.... wife will not be impressed ;p

 

[Anonymous]

I would have put that style/type of switch further round, nearer to the headlight level adjuster as I would have preferred it further out of the way.... Looking good though!! k:

Don't worry about the wife. You could always throw in a set of pink mats to keep her happy!!!! lol :lol:

 

[Longyear]

I would have put that style/type of switch further round, nearer to the headlight level adjuster as I would have preferred it further out of the way.... Looking good though!! k:

Don't worry about the wife. You could always throw in a set of pink mats to keep her happy!!!! lol :lol:

Lol, pink mats! ...you've just reminded me, I must get some mats. Got none in the car ATM

I know what you mean about the switch, I though about putting it next to the headlamp level adjuster too, as it would have looked more natural there but access was a bit trickier and laziness won the day! ... it does work pretty well where it is now. :grin:

Took the car out for the first time with Jim, my real petrol head mate, and he gave it a good thrashing! (once warmed up). He's got heavily modified MX5 and a Toyota Celica Turbo (old shape). He loves cars with 'proper handling' and was VERY impressed with the Puma. ...in fact he said he was going back around home to look at some Pumas on eBay lol.

So he had a VBOX thing and we done a few 0-60 runs out near his farm; my best reading was 8.45 secs but he got 7.96 on his first attempt! (although he never managed to better it). All runs with the torque limiter bypassed. We were going to try some comparisons but time ran out. He was aiming his changes to be just before the limiter but felt he was being a bit conservative in trying to miss it, and reckons he can get a 7.6 next time. We'll see. :grin: ... I was a bit worried he was going to blow my car up to be honest. We were driving on flat ground but the OAT was in our favour at 0 degrees! ...all runs were solo with no passenger.

This is what we were using:- http://www.velocitybox.co.uk/index.php/en/products-main/gps-data-loggers/52-vbox-mini.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Got back and car was filthy so spent an hour cleaning it, followed by a wipe over with Autoglym 'Instant Show Shine' ..... there was a strong smell of hot metal from the brakes when we got back which he assures me is normal! ...anyway, here's the car, post clean up:-

 

[MichaelW]

Under 8 seconds sounds very impressive for just a torque limit bypass.

 

[Longyear]

Under 8 seconds sounds very impressive for just a torque limit bypass.

Yeah. Before anyone comes along and has a pop though, I make no claims about how well the conditions and recording equipment compare against those used for 'official figures'. I've always found official figures to seem pretty modest anyway. for example my Volvo D5 has an 'official' 0-60 figure of 9.5 secs but it feels lot quicker than that and the general concensus is that the 'real' figure is closer to 8.5 secs. I'm not sure why car manufacturers make their figures modest. VW did the same with the Golf TDI 130, stating 9.6 seconds which was regarded to be over a second out on what could easily be achieved.

And the cold outside air temperature today will have improved results over say an average temperature (whatever that may be). I have no doubt whatsoever though that the Torque Limiter Bypass will have improved the figure, as you can clearly feel the car accelerating in an unimpeded way, with the TL bypassed. It feels a lot more spritely off the mark. But yes I was chuffed to see the 7.9 figure on the screen. :grin:

Cheers.

 

[MichaelW]

I've just fitted a ScanGaugeII in mine which has some performance logging stuff built in, I need to find some time and a quiet bit of road to test mine.

 

[PumaNoob]

Wow, how long have you had that black and decker drill??? :lol:

Im 6ft 5, so theres no way id manage to get in and out your car without hitting that switch, but looks like a really neat job. I cant believe how much the black wheels and mirror have changed the look of your car, it looks really clean, and getting rid of the orange indicators is a no brainer in my opinion, they make the puma look really old!!!

 

[Longyear]

Wow, how long have you had that black and decker drill??? :lol:

Im 6ft 5, so theres no way id manage to get in and out your car without hitting that switch, but looks like a really neat job. I cant believe how much the black wheels and mirror have changed the look of your car, it looks really clean, and getting rid of the orange indicators is a no brainer in my opinion, they make the puma look really old!!!

Lol!..... the drill was given to me from my Father-in-Law just last week, when mine died .... it's a vintage alright, reckon it's 25 years old if it's a day!

You'd be surprised re: the switch, as long as your not someone who sits on top of the wheel, I doubt your leg would hit that high, regardless of your height. My pal Jim who I was out with in the car today is 6'4" so not far off your height, and the switch was a good 3-4 inches to the left of his knee :lol: I'm 5' 10" so when I got in the car after him I could barely reach the steering wheel from where the seat was lol!

Aye, the 'black' treatments have really modernized the car ....... and on next to no budget too!

 

[PumaNoob]

To be fair, my dad has the same drill lol, and its still going!! As long as it does the job, who gives a crap how old it is.

That velocity box looks pretty cool, how much are they?? I wouldnt mind something like that, i love my gadgets!!!

 

[russv]

Looks like its coming along really well
Nice work!

I'm tempted to give the torque limiter bypass a go, just to see what its like :>

 

[Longyear]

To be fair, my dad has the same drill lol, and its still going!! As long as it does the job, who gives a crap how old it is.

That velocity box looks pretty cool, how much are they?? I wouldnt mind something like that, i love my gadgets!!!

The one that he has got (in the linkie above) is $499 new I think; matey got it off eBay for £200, it's only months old, and came unregistered so he's just starting the 12 month warranty on it now. .... Really satisfying device; just pop it on the screen like a SatNav, set the mode you want and off you go; great seeing your timings, especially as you improve and get them lower. :grin:

Looks like its coming along really well
Nice work!

I'm tempted to give the torque limiter bypass a go, just to see what its like :>

Thanks mate :thumbs:

Re: Torque Limiter Bypass. This is my honest take on it; if you're the type of Puma driver who really enjoys the handling, the corners, and generally the fun you have once you're rolling, then it may not be worth having a switch to flick every time you want to a more rapid acceleration in 1st & 2nd. But if like me, you enjoy fast acceleration, then it is an absolute MUST! ..... Trust me, you really do notice the difference (as long as you're not running a map that already has the torque limiter removed!).... the mod gives you not one bhp or nm of torque more, BUT... it makes the potential torque (and thus performance) that the car has, available ALL of the time; so you, rather than Ford, can decide when to use it ...... oh and and it costs about £3 to do (wire + switch)... so bang for the buck is probably better than any other performance mod.

Acceleration has always been my buzz; I'm not bothered about going any faster than say 90mph (where the law permits lol), and I'm not too excited by tracks or rallying experiences, I just love fast acceleration, hence why I was so interested in the mod. Some would say I've got the wrong car for enjoying acceleration!!... but like the rest of us I do love the full package and even a quick drive to the shops for some bread is always fun in the Puma

Sorry for the Waffle guys ... butter on that sir? :lol:

 

[Ian G]

If you hadn't said you were using a VBOX I wouldn't have believed those figures.

I've got one but I've never used it for performance testing, mine just does lap times and fancy graphs.

 

[PhilLew]

if like me you own a later car, where the torque limiter threshold was increased from 1500 to 2800rpm, you will find a quite dramatic improvement in acceleration in 1st gear, and to a lesser extent 2nd gear. The torque limiter retards ignition to reduce torque and the result is that feeling that later Pumas have in 1st gear that something is just holding them back... well, it is! ..... The increase in the torque limiter RPM threshold from 1500rpm to 2800rpm is the reason the earlier cars have a 0-60 time of 8.8 secs, where the newer cars (with greater torque limitation) take 9.2 seconds for the 0-60 dash. So if you can imagine no torque limitation at all, you should be looking at a sub 8.8 seconds 0-60 time, from an otherwise standard car ... and let me tell you it feels it!

can you explain this bit a little more? does this torque limiter thing just restrict the torque upto 1500 or 2800rpm and have no effect after that?

But if like me, you enjoy fast acceleration, then it is an absolute MUST! ..... Trust me, you really do notice the difference (as long as you're not running a map that already has the torque limiter removed!)....

I don't feel the acceleration is restricted at the moment, in fact I'm quite impressed with the rate it takes off at in !st and 2nd
How do I find out if the limiter is working or had been removed by a re-map in a previous life?

If mine is restricted I'd look to remove it, you can never have too much acceleration!!!


.

 

[PumaNoob]

The remap thing was aimed more towards me, because I had a remap on mIne before I brought it, but didn't know if the limiter had been removed or not. I'd have thought you'd have been told if you've had a remap or not, but if you want to check, just drive your car in any gear to redline. If the limiter is around 6900rpm, then it's standard. If the limiter is 7200, then it's had a remap or it has an FRP ECU.

 

[Longyear]

@ Phil.... I wouldn't like to take a stab at exactly how the TL works but essentially it retards ignition, when revs are in the threshold, so in older cars, the torque limiter only retarded torque up to 1,500rpm (presumably that 'moment of launch' was when the gearbox and drive shafts were put at greater duress)... then on later cars, the limiting was taking place through to 2,800rpm, so the limiting essentially lasting longer :-(

Wasn't really aimed at you PumaNoob about the remap :grin: but just anyone that may have bought a Puma that might have been modified or where a remap is suspected. Your 'RPM limiter test' is the best way to find out quickly, as you say

Let me just say again that I am far from being any expert on the Puma, or on car mechanics or electrics in general :wink: .. take a look at this project, it's about as modest as modest gets, compared to something like PumaNoob's awesome projects. All I'm really saying here is that fitting the bypass switch is easy (if I can do it, 90% of peeps on here will be able to do it), and that in my experience, if you want a Puma that's faster off the mark it's definately worth doing.

Ian - I don't know much about the VBOX except that it was an impressive bit of kit. :grin: I think unlike 'normal' GPS SatNavs, it records speed 20 times per second or thereabouts (a SatNav records speed once per second so useless for 0-60). But whether or not the speeds it returned are accurate or not I couldn't say. It was fun testing though!

Cheers,

 

[PhilLew]

Thanks guys, I'll have to go and test where the rev limiter is set as I haven't hit it in this car yet (must be getting old) :grin: I'll report back.

I bought my Puma a month a go as a cheap (£500) winter runabout, 7 owners and no history so no Idea if any of the previous owners spent any money on performance improvement.
I intend to run it until the MOT runs out and then decide if it's worth keeping/re-testing (assuming I dont break it before then :grin: ) so any modifications will be cheap or free and whilst I was impressed with the performance when I bought it, it is still the slowest vehicle in the current 'fleet' so any improvement for free has got to be welcomed!!

one other question about the torque limiter, does the ecu have a sensor so that it knows when you're in 1st and 2nd or does it calculate it from engine revs vs road speed?

Cheers

Phil.

P.S. sorry for hi-jacking your thread, maybe we should start a 'torque limiter thread' :grin:

.

 

[Anonymous]

I would guess it does it on road speed as unplugging the gearbox speed sensor disables the restriction, but how it works it all out, I have no idea!!

The ECU could possibly put the restriction in when it senses the road speed increasing at a higher rate....

just stabbing in the dark TBH! :roll:

 

[PumaNoob]

Sorry, I didn't mean aimed at me, I meant it was written in light of our possible findings on the situation with my torque limiter switch!
Would you guys PLEASE stop playing down your mods, you will probably find there is more interest in these type of mods because they are accessible. If you look at in terms of performance per £, it's a he'll of a mod. If I get 260 bhp from mine, thats a roughly 100bhp increase. And it's cost me over £3k to build mine, so that's £30 per 1bhp. Your mods cant be exactly measured in bhp, but on acceleration, the switch has got to be worth 5-10bhp in the 1st 1500rpm!! So between £150 & £300 worth of performance there lol. And you've done it for pocket change!! :lol:

We should all have a competition, see who can get the best performance mod per £. I've already got mine sussed, if you rip the interior out, and sell it, you get more bhp per tonne, & you get paid for it!! :lol: that's around minus £50 for something like a 10bhp per tonne increase!!

 

[ScubaSteve]

VBOX uses g force to make its measurements using a motion sensor. Its not entirely accurate, gives you a rough idea though, more useful for comparing back to back results after making changes.

Pretty much like a rolling road tbh, not entirely accurate for a one off measurement but good for comparing results after change

 

[PumaNoob]

Hmmm, like a portable rolling rd??? I like the sound of that. I'm getting one!!